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Offline MalinAC  
#1 Posted : 23 January 2018 11:35:19(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
Im trying to figure out what the rise on a section of track is. In 43 " the track goes up 2.75" . I must be having a senior moment because I used to be able to fig ure it out. Take care Eddie Confused

Edited by moderator 03 February 2018 10:25:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 23 January 2018 12:12:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
2.75 divided by 43 gives 6.4 %.
The calculator shows 0,06395348837209302325581395348837. You can multiply with 100 to get the percent value directly.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline MalinAC  
#3 Posted : 23 January 2018 12:21:38(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
Thanks Tom, The rise starts on a curve and finishes on a curve. All my Marklin that I tried go up with no problems except a small drop in speed pulling 10 /12 wagons. Eddie
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Offline Minok  
#4 Posted : 23 January 2018 23:59:26(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Yep, those rubber tires really let our stuff do some non-prototypical stuff, all in the name of 'fitting it in the small room in H0'. And I like that.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 24 January 2018 10:10:39(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Yep, those rubber tires really let our stuff do some non-prototypical stuff
There are railway lines that handle 7%, 8% or even 10% without traction tyres and without cogwheels.
So 6.5% is prototypical - but leads to some limitations in both 1:1 and 1:87.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline dominator  
#6 Posted : 24 January 2018 11:00:29(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
On Michael Portillo's program, I heard one of the loco drivers state that the incline they drive their locos on is 2% and that was quite steep for a railway.Confused Confused
Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2018 11:10:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
On Michael Portillo's program, I heard one of the loco drivers state that the incline they drive their locos on is 2% and that was quite steep for a railway.Confused Confused
2 % is quite steep for a mainline, but still far from the limit.
Our locos need traction tyres because model coaches and freight cars require much more tractive effort than the real things with rolling bearings.
In real life they need pushing locomotives because the couplers are too weak - a problem that does not exist with our models.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 24 January 2018 14:47:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
On Michael Portillo's program, I heard one of the loco drivers state that the incline they drive their locos on is 2% and that was quite steep for a railway.Confused Confused
Dereck


I heard somewhere, but have never verified the figures, that a 1% incline takes twice the power to pull a train at the same speed as it takes on the level.

One would need to go through the maths to work this out, and I haven't found the time to sit down and work it through, so ... anybody game?
Offline Minok  
#9 Posted : 24 January 2018 17:28:23(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
With the steep grades (above 4%) one of the chief technical problems is that special braking systems and safety systems need to be installed to ensure the train can stop as needed.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Drongo  
#10 Posted : 27 January 2018 10:42:45(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Here in Sydney, Australia, our government railways have all the answers on prototypical rail inclines. They learnt this information the hard way. They planned a rail link between 2 stations (Chatswood and Epping) and on route there was to be a small bridge, but someone said that if they constructed the bridge it would endanger the lives of some frogs. So, they decided to build a tunnel - at some enormous expense, and they found that the trains couldn't go up the slope. No problem - buy new trains. Cursing Cursing Cursing

Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline hxmiesa  
#11 Posted : 02 February 2018 13:45:05(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Here in Sydney, Australia, our government railways have all the answers on prototypical rail inclines. They learnt this information the hard way. They planned a rail link between 2 stations (Chatswood and Epping) and on route there was to be a small bridge, but someone said that if they constructed the bridge it would endanger the lives of some frogs. So, they decided to build a tunnel - at some enormous expense, and they found that the trains couldn't go up the slope. No problem - buy new trains. Cursing Cursing Cursing

-But the frogs are happy, right?
After all, that is all that matters... ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Tom Jessop  
#12 Posted : 02 February 2018 21:55:08(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


The same Government is now building a new metro using the tunnels which were built to our normal rail standards & clearances but there is also a long extension westwards joining on to the existing part which is built to totally different specifications which will not allow our current rail stock to fit thru. new signalling ,overhead , platform design etc etc . . At the other end the same tunnel boring machine is set up to drive under the Sydney harbor ,wander around underground till it comes above ground somewhere in the southern suburbs & then use the original rail line thru to Bankstown . with no possible connection or usage for existing trains . demolition of existing historical stations which are on the states register of historical buildings . All of this is to be totally driverless & controlled by someone in a remote building who has no knowledge of what is actually happening outside in the real world. A government that is hell bent on removing train crew from employment opportunities & have stated they will not be employing any more rail staff in future years . With all the current problems this mob have caused state wide with selling off the power stations , power lines , harbor control to overseas companies I cannot seeing them lasting much longerwhen the next election happens .


Cheers Tom in Oz .
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Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 02 February 2018 22:39:19(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
at least your trains stop somewhere where people live, our trains will go to the airport (under construction) but an airport is a large parcel of land, what we do is create an airport station as far away as possible from the actual airport hub and you either have to walk or catch a bus to get to the entrance hall a matter of fact 99% of our railway stations are not directly linked to any shopping precinct, people have to walk in the heat (40° C) under no over cover or again take a bus., one particular station comes into my mind; Rockingham, a popular beach front city, parkland and shallow water/wide beaches, a family gem, but you can't see a single train there, its miles away, the government excuse was they didn't have the money to extend it to Rockingham.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Minok  
#14 Posted : 02 February 2018 23:08:56(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Well since we are apparently playing "The Yorkshiremen" (I'll forgo the tale of how our metro area makes us lick the road clean and we got up 3 hrs before we went to bed)....

Seattle built a transit tunnel under downtown decades ago, that was prepared for light rail, and had rail installed in it, but only ran buses through it because Seattle was so farsighted in the 1970's or whenever it was, to think they would never grow and didn't need all that matching millions of federal funding (so Atlanta, Georgia got the money and built a great rail transit system out of it). And when Seattle finally got on the ball in the early 2000's (you know, many decades to late), they discovered those rails would not be usable for modern light rail trains they were looking at and had to rip them all out and replace them with new ones. Meanwhile, the very expensive bridge over Lake Washington that was built to some day take light rail, but over those decades was being used by Mercer Island residents to avoid sticking to the normal highway and High Occupancy routes, is now finally getting claimed for that purpose - and of course all the homeowners are screaming bloody murder and holding things up in court for reasons of "its all about me".
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 03 February 2018 03:26:37(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
The one I like about is consultancy fees, you never hear much about them, it usually starts off as a new political party policy announcement, you get quotes from consultancy firms, than the opposition political party, have their own consultancy fee analysis about the project, in mean time nothing gets done , by the time the term has expired and new elections are on the way, the incoming government (most the time the previous opposition) , starts off their own costing about the project and more consultancy fees are paid., than there are impact studies, environmental studies and all other studies and 10 year down the track nothing has been done, it just got swept under the carpet, forgotten with the general public and than there are announcements, a new strategy has been applied, much cheaper, more effective plan: instead of trains it was decided to have buses. as an economic statement: did you know the richest State in Australia is 43 billion in debt, that is 1.5 billion in interest charges each financial year.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Minok  
#16 Posted : 03 February 2018 05:27:21(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Buy is that Seattle in a nutshell. Pun intended.
During the period before they finally started building light rail there was this effort to extend the monorail system that was built ina small segment for the Worlds Fair back in 1962. They wanted to extend it over more if the city (at huge expense of course singe it's all gotta be up on concrete raises runs with unique cars). The voters of Seattle studied and voted and studied and cited. I think the monorail idea came up for public vote at least 4 or 5 times over the years as constant efforts were floated to add what would be a tiny fraction of coverage. When one thinks how much light rail cups have been built with the money spent on those studies campaigns and repeated elections it's maddening.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#17 Posted : 03 February 2018 06:20:05(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
I think we're getting a bit off topic here..........(and almost venturing into a political discussion).
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Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 03 February 2018 09:23:54(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I recommended maximum 3 % incline and decline for the trains because most of the digital locomotives do have two traction tyres.
To pulling up wagons incline is already hard work for the locomotives with two traction tyres.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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GLI
Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 03 February 2018 20:15:58(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
A test I did some years ago with all the locos I had at the time proved that I could safely rise 10cm over a distance of two metres. I believe that is a gradient of 5%.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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