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Offline ae66green  
#1 Posted : 11 January 2018 17:35:32(UTC)
ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
Does anyone know about the new M84 - 60842? There is a B/O terminal which is to connect to the track (I am using C-tracks) to pick up the digital signal and the track power which is to switch the 4 groups of relay on the M84. If I want to use the M84 to turn o and turn off my street/building lights, and also use it to control the Viessmann light signal 4013, do I need an additional power supply (either a transformer or a switch mode power pack)? My understanding is the power from the B/O terminal is used to switch the 4 groups of relay to RED or GREEN position but not to power the 4 relay output (the devices connected to the 4 relay output). Can anyone provide me a wiring diagram how to connect the street lights and the light signal to the M84? Furthermore, how does the CS2 recognize the M84? Do I need to register the M84 to the CS2 before using it?
Offline ktsolias  
#2 Posted : 11 January 2018 17:51:02(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 511
Location: Athens
Here is the instruction manual of the m84

60842_betrieb.pdf (4,346kb) downloaded 255 time(s).

Regards

Costas
Offline ae66green  
#3 Posted : 11 January 2018 20:06:29(UTC)
ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
Thanks for your information. I got that manual too, but how do I register the M84 to the CS2 and how to connect the Viessmann 4013 to the output terminal? Do you also know whether the B/O terminal would supply power to the 4 output terminals?
Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 11 January 2018 22:50:41(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
The "load" of the Relays is quite independent of the control (B/0)

As per the Viessmann 4013 manual Fig3 pg4,
http://www.viessmann-mod...3_98106_09_DE-EN_web.pdf

You would treat the 3 m84 screw terminals of each port pair as you would for the 3 plugs shown from the Viessmann 5550 switch box.
It is just that the Yellow would go to the middle of the 3 terminals of the m84.

Peter
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 11 January 2018 23:00:53(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
.... how do I register the M84 to the CS2 ...


Personally I would not attempt the autoregistration (mFX)

For manual registration,

- from the CS2 Keyboard , locate a free range of (4) addresses and edit the item in the keyboard screen

- specify "New multidecoder"
- optionally set the DCC mode if desired

- Observe the DIP switch icon at the top right
- set the m84 DIP switches as per this image

- Optionally
- - edit the icon to a more appropriate one
- - give the item a name


Peter
Offline ae66green  
#6 Posted : 11 January 2018 23:14:42(UTC)
ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
Thanks Peter.
If the "load" of the 4 relay terminals are independent of the control B/O (its mean the power from CS2 will not supply power to the relay terminals), do you know what is the purpose of using the universal power supply 60822 with a separate switch mode power pack 66065 for the M84? The instruction manual for the M84 mentions the universal power supply and the switch power pack but does not have the details. Does the universal power supply together with the switch mode power pack provide power supply to the 4 relay terminals? (i.e. will that supply power for my street lights and the Viessmann signal?)
Offline TEEWolf  
#7 Posted : 12 January 2018 01:31:21(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,455
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know about the new M84 - 60842? There is a B/O terminal which is to connect to the track (I am using C-tracks) to pick up the digital signal and the track power which is to switch the 4 groups of relay on the M84. If I want to use the M84 to turn o and turn off my street/building lights, and also use it to control the Viessmann light signal 4013, do I need an additional power supply (either a transformer or a switch mode power pack)? My understanding is the power from the B/O terminal is used to switch the 4 groups of relay to RED or GREEN position but not to power the 4 relay output (the devices connected to the 4 relay output). Can anyone provide me a wiring diagram how to connect the street lights and the light signal to the M84? Furthermore, how does the CS2 recognize the M84? Do I need to register the M84 to the CS2 before using it?


Maerklin issued in its MM 04/2014 an article about the m 84. Find the article here:

https://www.maerklin.de/...5_Digital_MM_2014_04.pdf

Be aware that the m 84 (60841- grey) is the older decoder, the 60842 (m 84 - black) is the newer one. The 60842 is now understanding the mfx format too.

Here at marklin-users.net I found older threads about the decoders

https://www.marklin-user...477-K84-and-M84-decoders
(if link is not functioning threads name is "K84 and M84 decoders" here at marklin-users.net. You might get via the search function to the thread) and

https://www.marklin-user...ound-for-4-Port-toggling

(threads name: "m83=60831/60832 m84=60841/60842 ( 60821 60822 ) - Dec17= mfx sync of addresses (CS3 <> m8*.2) - Marklin Märklin : Perspective details about new accessory items" - yes very long name - Clapcott started it Oct 27th, 2013)

Our friend Clapcott (here at MUN) made in this thread very detailed description about the decoders m 83 and m 84. In the post #134 also he published a graphic with the power connection.


Finally some pictures in a dutch wiki about programming the decoder m 84 by a CS 2:

https://wiki.3rail.nl/in..._M83/M84-decoder_met_CS2

Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 12 January 2018 03:11:25(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
... do you know what is the purpose of using the universal power supply 60822 with a separate switch mode power pack 66065 for the M84? ....


In the context of both the m83 and m84 (old and new) using an external power supply serves the following functions ...

1) Retains state when the track B/0 is off (e.g. loco shorts on tracks)
NOTE m84 relays are NOT latching like the k84. They can only emulate this mode with an external power supply

2) power for utility lights

- the m83 allows for ports to be on with various lighting functions - if you have 8 x 200mA sucking power from the main controller you will soon have no power for locos. IF you are only pulsing the outputs (turnout mode) then this is not continuous current but in some cases other lights on the circuit may blink/flicer annyingly

- the m84 has an ADDITIONAL function for the support of the HOBBY signals - the spade connectors below the 3 bin terminal blocks. In these cases the power IS derived from the m84 unit

3) if you are using the m84 unit without a digital controller

4) more reliable CV reading - especially from a MS2

Note: I am yet to be convinced of the need for the 60822 (with m8*) and personally do not use it. Just plug the 6636* in directly.
(The 60822 and PS may be used with a k83 to offer distributed power)
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#9 Posted : 12 January 2018 03:19:43(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Finally some pictures in a dutch wiki about programming the decoder m 84 by a CS 2:
https://wiki.3rail.nl/in..._M83/M84-decoder_met_CS2


Note that this predates an update to the CS2 that now offers the more appropriate ability to program CVs in the Accessory(Keyboard) edit screens.

When the m8* was originally made available the CVs needed to be managed (on the CS2) using a proxy locomotive. This is no longer the case.
Peter
Offline ae66green  
#10 Posted : 12 January 2018 14:35:45(UTC)
ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
How should I program the M84 in the keyboard screen? SHOULD I connect the M84 to the programming track?
Offline clapcott  
#11 Posted : 13 January 2018 22:34:49(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
How should I program the M84 in the keyboard screen?

Select the "Spanner" icon at the bottom left, then either
- if wishing to use the mFX configuration, first register with the "mFX" button
- tap the address of one of the ports on the m84

Quote:
SHOULD I connect the M84 to the programming track?


What are you wanting to program ?

- if its just the icons, then this is a controller function and does not need any m84 programming,

- the DCC v MM operational mode is programmed only via DIP swich #10 - NOT CV programable.

- if you are wanting to program the address, I would highly recommend that you just use the DIP switches (to avoid confusion in debugging in the future). But if this is not satisfactory then an address may be programmed
- - on the programming track only (not POM) for MM and DCC modes
- - on either main or programming with mfX (If the m84 (60842) has been registered as a mfx configurable device)

- In all other CV programming, you may WRITE a CV to the non programming output - with MM you may not be able to address the higher number CVs on some controllers.

- Should you wish to read CVs then this can be done
- - on the programming track (not POM) DCC mode
- - on either main or programming with mfX (If the m84 (60842) has been registered as a mfx configurable device)
Peter
Offline ae66green  
#12 Posted : 14 January 2018 00:23:39(UTC)
ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
I try to change the cv38 because I have the Marklin hobby signal 74380, I click on the wrench icon on the keyboard screen, and then choose the first relay output icon, then I click on the CV icon but it only shows the 6 CV (CV 1 to 6 Only), I cannot figure out how to get the CV38? Please note that my M84 is in MM mode not DCC mode.
Offline clapcott  
#13 Posted : 14 January 2018 07:27:13(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
I try to change the cv38 because I have the Marklin hobby signal 74380, I click on the wrench icon on the keyboard screen, and then choose the first relay output icon, then I click on the CV icon but it only shows the 6 CV (CV 1 to 6 Only), I cannot figure out how to get the CV38? Please note that my M84 is in MM mode not DCC mode.


On the screen where you see the basic 6 CVs, locate the "open file/folder" at the bottom right
and choose the m84 configuration template. (this will include a line entry for CV38

Note: you can also manually add a template line and specify CV38.


In MM mode , you can only write, not read the CV.

will show a general walk through of the , similar, m83. al be it for DCC
Peter
Offline ae66green  
#14 Posted : 14 January 2018 15:31:26(UTC)
ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
Thanks Peter. Do you mean I need to change my m84 to DCC format first (change tne 10th DIP switch) before I can access to CV38? And there is no way to access tbe CV38 under MM mode?
Offline clapcott  
#15 Posted : 14 January 2018 18:32:29(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Peter. Do you mean I need to change my m84 to DCC format first (change tne 10th DIP switch) before I can access to CV38? And there is no way to access tbe CV38 under MM mode?


What I am suggesting is that in DCC you can read the CV values when connected to programming track, whereas MM only offers write
Note: even with DCC, POM on the main track is write only.

You can certainly write CV38 when in MM mode, and the indicator lights will flicker in between the usual slow blinking, to indicate that writing is occurring. However it is sometimes "nicer" to be able to read values as a confidence check, and in some cases to know what the existing value is before tweaking them.

Also, MM programming works by cycling power off and on in a certain sequence to set the device into programming mode.
For this you should NOT have external power to the m84 attached, as this defeats this resetting happening.

That said, from experience CV38 is set to 0 from the factory and there is no real danger with setting any value (0 to 10) like there might be with certain motor characteristics.

Cheers
Peter
Peter
Offline ae66green  
#16 Posted : 15 January 2018 02:53:22(UTC)
ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
Thanks Peter for your information. I will try it.
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