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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 29 December 2017 14:34:30(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
The 36431 is starting delivery.

36431 Manual - >DOWNLOAD PDF<

Please note - 'The cold steam unit should not be turned on when the locomotive is being run on M Track (risk of corrosion!).' page 9.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 29 December 2017 14:54:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Interesting manual.

"This model may be supplied with power only from an appropriate power source. (example: DC 18V / max. 36VA)."
=> Does that mean no Central Stations (60 VA or more)?

"The cold steam unit should not be turned on when the locomotive is being run on M Track (risk of corrosion!)."
=> Risk of corrosion exists with M track, K track, and C track - at least for the centre rail.

"Do not expose the model to direct sunlight, extreme changes in temperature, or high humidity."
=> And that for a model that should be filled with water ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline dickinsonj  
#3 Posted : 31 December 2017 01:54:20(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
The 36431 is starting delivery.

Please note - 'The cold steam unit should not be turned on when the locomotive is being run on M Track (risk of corrosion!).' page 9.

Interesting. Has anyone on the forum actually seen this smoke unit in operation yet? I wonder if the effect even looks good enough to deal with spraying water on your layout.

It will be interesting to see if these Piezo mister type smoke units work out, or if they are just an evolutionary dead end. I guess either way that might make this model worth having, even if you didn't end up using the smoke function very often.

Edited by user 03 January 2018 13:46:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 31 December 2017 18:45:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
The 36431 is starting delivery.

Please note - 'The cold steam unit should not be turned on when the locomotive is being run on M Track (risk of corrosion!).' page 9.

Interesting. Has anyone on the forum actually seen this smoke unit in operation yet? I wonder if the effect even looks good enough to deal with spraying water on your layout.

It will be interesting to see if these Piezo mister type smoke units work out, or if they are just an evolutionary dead end. I guess either way that might make this model worth having, even if you didn't end using the smoke function very often.


I suspect this is an attempt to do a smoke unit aimed at the 'Start Up' market, and this is a reasonable loco to try production on before it goes into widespread production in 30000 etc locos.

Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 31 December 2017 19:15:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I suspect this is an attempt to do a smoke unit aimed at the 'Start Up' market, and this is a reasonable loco to try production on before it goes into widespread production in 30000 etc locos.
The smoke generator looks rather big on the explosion diagram, so maybe no option for #30000 and other small tank locos.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 03 January 2018 10:18:27(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I applaud the initiative to simulate exhaust with water vapour rather than smoke oil. I'm sure it will be a lot healthier!

The size of the reservoir will be an issue, as Tom points out. I suspect that only bigger steam locos with empty space in their boilers will carry this equipment.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Crazy Harry  
#7 Posted : 03 January 2018 13:42:43(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 476
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Maybe the tanks on the tank engines will become useful?
Offline Rwill  
#8 Posted : 03 January 2018 14:04:45(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Isn't it a bit ironic that we have water used to create exhaust of a diesel engine and oil to create smoke from a steamer?
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Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 04 January 2018 20:42:37(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I seen some on ebay for 450 Euro, It may sell well.Huh
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#10 Posted : 05 January 2018 01:23:52(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I seen some on ebay for 450 Euro, It may sell well.Huh


Amazing!

As just an HO model it only seems to be worth about 50% - 75% of that price. I guess the first use of a new technology is worth a good bit to some collectors. I however will probably wait for that tech to be used in a higher quality loco before I commit. Cool
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 06 January 2018 09:07:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I seen some on ebay for 450 Euro, It may sell well.Huh
List price is €280.
Some who did not pre-order in time are now paying desperate prices to get one.


We had a 36431 at the club meeting last night. We filled water in, but did not get any "smoke" out of it. It will go back to the dealer.
We also had a TVT 39774. The platform needed a helping finger to get back to the straight position, so this item will also go back to the dealer.

A video of a 36431 with operational "smoke" unit:
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline vmsysprog  
#12 Posted : 08 January 2018 01:04:49(UTC)
vmsysprog

United States   
Joined: 09/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 60
The use of water vapor around electrical equipment just does not make sense to me.
Steve
Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 26 March 2018 22:11:33(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Anyone been using their Tiger with the piezo vaporizer lately?
The thread on Stummi indicates some users are finding their piezo vaporizer stops working after some weeks, and its not yet clear why. I'm curious if any folks here have similar experiences - mine is yet to arrive from Germany as the box won't get mailed till more stuff shows up at the dealer.

The piezo technology uses vibration to create the vapor, so in addition to the need to get power to the peizo element, the system is dependent on the ability of the element to oscillate withing the right frequency range, as far as I know. Some things that make the element oscillate at a different frequency would affect things - from deposits, to the thing binding up.

It certainly reads like there is some design or construction issue in the locomotive for the vapor generator. I was mainly interested in the loco for the yellow service loco aspect, so the water based smoke generator is an add-on feature that's not critical to me, but I'd certainly like to use it off and on - so getting a working design is of interest. Märklin's service group must be getting inundated with these locomotives lately.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
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My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline xxup  
#14 Posted : 26 March 2018 22:20:52(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
"Do not expose the model to direct sunlight, extreme changes in temperature, or high humidity."
=> And that for a model that should be filled with water ...


That's me out.. 95% humidity and 30C today.. Did I also mention very sunny? Blushing Might work in the middle of our winter when it gets down to 20C some days..

Those evaporative room coolers don't work during summer here either - it is too humid.. Only refrigerated air conditioning.. Out west where it is hot without the humidity it might work better there, but then there usually is not much water in the area to waste in a room cooler..

I wonder if the reason that these units are failing after a few months is about the quality of the water? Do the instructions require distilled water?
Adrian
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Offline Minok  
#15 Posted : 26 March 2018 22:32:43(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
They do require distilled, and the claims of the users on Stummi is they are using distilled water (or deionized water down under, as I found out).
Indeed it could well work more or less depending on the atmospheric conditions as well, but I'd expect them to work in the 15-25c and 40-80% relh range most folks live in.

Some of the Märklin instructions:

• Only distilled water should be used for the cold steam
unit. This type of water is not included with the locomotive.
• The steam slot on the cold steam unit may not be covered
when the unit is in operation.
• During operation, an air bubble may form at the steam
opening, which will hinder the production of steam.
This can be prevented by blowing lightly into the steam
opening. In most cases, the air bubble will dissolve on its
own after a short time.
• If possible, operate the cold steam unit only when the
locomotive is running. Otherwise, too much moisture can
fall in one place. When the locomotive is at a stop, the
cold steam unit shuts off automatically after 60 seconds.
When the locomotive starts going again, the cold steam
unit is activated again.
• Pour distilled water only in the correct roof opening (see
under Item 5). The roof opening for the tank is closed
with a rubber cork. This rubber cork must be removed
when filling the tank and after that put back in the opening.

So there are certainly a number of ways a user could mess things up :
1) Not use distilled water where they have hard water that results in mineral build up.
2) Putting the plug in back into the wrong slot
3) Forgetting to put the plug in
4) The loco sat still and auto-shut off?
5) there is an air bubble on top of the piezo element that prevents contact with the water that needs to be blown loose (what are you doing to your train there honey?!)
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 26 March 2018 23:09:10(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
They do require distilled, and the claims of the users on Stummi is they are using distilled water (or deionized water down under, as I found out).
Indeed it could well work more or less depending on the atmospheric conditions as well, but I'd expect them to work in the 15-25c and 40-80% relh range most folks live in.

Some of the Märklin instructions:

• Only distilled water should be used for the cold steam
unit. This type of water is not included with the locomotive.
• The steam slot on the cold steam unit may not be covered
when the unit is in operation.
• During operation, an air bubble may form at the steam
opening, which will hinder the production of steam.
This can be prevented by blowing lightly into the steam
opening. In most cases, the air bubble will dissolve on its
own after a short time.
• If possible, operate the cold steam unit only when the
locomotive is running. Otherwise, too much moisture can
fall in one place. When the locomotive is at a stop, the
cold steam unit shuts off automatically after 60 seconds.
When the locomotive starts going again, the cold steam
unit is activated again.
• Pour distilled water only in the correct roof opening (see
under Item 5). The roof opening for the tank is closed
with a rubber cork. This rubber cork must be removed
when filling the tank and after that put back in the opening.

So there are certainly a number of ways a user could mess things up :
1) Not use distilled water where they have hard water that results in mineral build up.
2) Putting the plug in back into the wrong slot
3) Forgetting to put the plug in
4) The loco sat still and auto-shut off?
5) there is an air bubble on top of the piezo element that prevents contact with the water that needs to be blown loose (what are you doing to your train there honey?!)


You left out the part about being extremely careful with the distilled water and to seek medical assistance if ingesting nay of it. Crying Crying Crying

I used proper Scottish Loch water straight from the tap when I ran mine at Ians houseparty.

Offline dickinsonj  
#17 Posted : 27 March 2018 01:00:00(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
I am almost starting to be glad that I was not able to get the Tiger loco after all.

Like Minok I mostly wanted it for the yellow service livery but the piezo atomizer is interesting. I also know that cutting edge tech can be an issue from working on developing some experimental electronics in my job.

All of the qualifications on the use of that unit may make it more of a curiosity in the long run than a replacement for the old tried and true smoke units. I guess only time will tell.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline skeeterbuck  
#18 Posted : 27 March 2018 04:51:14(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Reading this make me glad I'm not into diesels. BigGrin

Give me a Seuthe #10, A BR01 and BR44 and I'm a happy camper. Woot

Chuck
Offline Minok  
#19 Posted : 04 April 2018 21:02:49(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
I'm curious if the longer time Märklin buyers can shed some light on the issue of Märklin producing the wrong variation.


The 36431 being sold as the BR 233 Tiger is, if one looks, actually a BR 232 shell but painted up as the BR 233 Tiger.
To some/most it probably doesn't matter - I mainly wanted a yellow service loco, and this fits the bill.
But to others, is can certainly be annoying for Märklin to pass off what is a BR 232 based off of features (windows) as a BR 233.

Is this common? I can certainly see why Märklin would - hey have a have a DR BR 132 already, the DB BR 232, so when they make a new one that is a slightly different sub-variant, the DB BR 233, just reuse the mold... maybe no one will notice and it saves them the step of putting in a window where a vent is.

For an entry level loco, I guess thats fine, but still $310 is not nothing..

I suppose it leaves more "project work" - painting the lower side of the forehead lip, and maybe now installing a window...

Capture.PNG
Capture3.PNG
Capture2.PNG
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 06 April 2018 09:07:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I'm curious if the longer time Märklin buyers can shed some light on the issue of Märklin producing the wrong variation.
Are you serious?
That's a long list.

Deutsche Bundesbahn had three blue locos of non-streamlined class 03.10 with old boilers. Märklin do not have moulds for the 03.10 with the old boiler, so they used several other moulds like BR 03.0-2 or BR 03.10 with new boiler and painted them blue.
BR 216 labelled as BR 218 or E 69 02 labelled as E 69 03 are other examples.
Locos, coaches, freight cars - a complete list will be very long.

And other brands do the same.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline xxup  
#21 Posted : 06 April 2018 09:35:16(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
I really love this line in the manual:

If the cold steam unit chirps like a bird, the water tank is empty.

I can't wait for the first post, in a few years time, that starts with, "I keep hearing this sound like a bird chirping. It's driving my cat crazy." LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Adrian
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Offline Rwill  
#22 Posted : 06 April 2018 11:48:00(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I really love this line in the manual:

If the cold steam unit chirps like a bird, the water tank is empty.

I can't wait for the first post, in a few years time, that starts with, "I keep hearing this sound like a bird chirping. It's driving my cat crazy." LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL


Wouldnt last long in our house then.

With my hearing issues I would never hear a bird chirping and our two cats love a challenge and would thinki its a big yellow budgie and swipe it off the layout onto the floor - wonder it that would be covered under warranty




Offline Minok  
#23 Posted : 06 April 2018 17:20:28(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I'm curious if the longer time Märklin buyers can shed some light on the issue of Märklin producing the wrong variation.
Are you serious?
That's a long list.



Fair enough. Common practice then. So nothing surprising. No problem with it from my side, heck I'll possibly model a connection that didn't exist in the era I model. Artistic license. Some folks on stummi were bothered by it and I'd not noticed and was curious how common this was.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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