Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Brian McWhirter  
#1 Posted : 23 November 2017 00:52:47(UTC)
Brian McWhirter

United States   
Joined: 16/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: CA
Hello All,
It's been awhile since I've posted.

I've got a 50's era M-track setup, but brought into the 90's via a control system that allows track sensors to feed a processor that allows touchpanel, and automated operation of the various turnouts and signals.

There is no immediate plan to go "digital". However, I'm trying to get my little switchyard engine, to act a little more naturally. Right now, it runs back and forth on a small bit of track. Upon reaching one end, input from a 5105 contact track tells the processor to activate the reverse mode.

I've recently replaced the the mechanical reversing unit with an Eckert Engineering 61486. That all works fine, but my struggles are with the motor itself. The lok runs faster in one direction than the other, and not very well at all at low speeds.

Is it possible to outfit this engine with a 5-pole motor that I'm hoping will allow better low speed operation? Any other options or suggestions?
Thanks!
Brian
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 23 November 2017 01:05:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,681
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Brian, the conversion set you need is 60943 and usually costs around Euro 24.00 and that's all you need and of course a decoder, I would recommend an ESU lokpilot,

a similar loco (3029) has been converted to digital with other extras



regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by river6109
Offline DB Fan  
#3 Posted : 23 November 2017 02:00:01(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 183
Location: Colorado
Hello
Not to hijack the thread but can you install 60943 and keep the engine analog? Thanks.

Happy Model Railroading

Robert
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 23 November 2017 03:02:29(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,841
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
Not to hijack the thread but can you install 60943 and keep the engine analog?


The standard motor in a Marklin analog loco uses a field coil, and is an AC motor intended for use with an AC transformer.

Converting an analog loco motor with any of the conversion kits installs a permanent magnet into the motor, which converts it to a DC motor, which would require a DC transformer to operate - a bit hard when you've already got AC on the track. A digital decoder can take the AC voltage and convert it internally for use with a DC motor.

So the short answer to the question is No.

There are digital decoders that work with AC motors with the original field coil such as the TD101, which may have load control.

https://www.marklin-user...1-decoder-from-Argentina

Offline DB Fan  
#5 Posted : 23 November 2017 04:30:19(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 183
Location: Colorado
Thanks for the reply. Then if Brian needs a 60943 I have 2 for sale now and Brian has first dipsBigGrin . Let me know since I’m in Colorado for the next week and shipping would be less . I’ll put an official post into the I want to sell when I hear back from Brian.

Happy Model Railroading

Robert
Offline Brian McWhirter  
#6 Posted : 26 November 2017 20:43:51(UTC)
Brian McWhirter

United States   
Joined: 16/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: CA
So, to understand this, the 60943 kit will convert the existing AC motor to a DC motor, and then a decoder (i.e. Lokpilot) will allow the DC motor to operate on the track with an AC feed?
If this is correct, which version of the Lokpilot would be appropriate?
Thanks.
Brian
Offline Brian McWhirter  
#7 Posted : 01 December 2019 01:57:59(UTC)
Brian McWhirter

United States   
Joined: 16/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: CA
Well, I see it's been more than two years since I beat this horse, but with the turn of seasons, it's time to get back to the railroad...

I"m still interested in getting my switchyard to operate more realistically, so it's time to dabble in the digital domain. I've ordered a 30000 tank engine, and want to know what else I'll need to convert my switchyard to digital operation.

As I've described in a previous post, the idea is for the lok to maneuver back and forth from one end of the switchyard to the other. Currently, when the lok reaches a contact track, it shuts down power to the track. Then a reverse pulse reverses the lok direction, and power is re-applied to the track. Strictly analog, accomplished with relays.

If I go digital for this section, I'm assuming I'll need a controller of some sort, perhaps a 6021? Does this unit provide track power as well, or do I need a DC power supply? How is reversing accomplished automatically?

Another thing that I don't get is the operation of signals in the digital domain. In analog, power is shut down to the track, stopping the train. To convert to digital, is it possible to use the same signal? The impression I get is that the signal tells the train to stop, but doesn't remove power from it, thus the lights and what-not still operate.

My current processor does an excellent job of controlling signals and points. Does this all need to be ripped out to convert to Marklin digital?

I've searched the internet end-to-end looking for a paper or schematic that lays everything out, but I just seem to find bits and pieces that describe this decoder with that lok, etc.

Additionally, I'll probably convert to C-track in the switchyard, as it appears to be a bit more reliable across switching points from what I'm reading.

Anyway, those are my questions for now. Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks.
Brian
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 01 December 2019 16:57:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,671
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Brian McWhirter Go to Quoted Post
Well, I see it's been more than two years since I beat this horse, but with the turn of seasons, it's time to get back to the railroad...

I"m still interested in getting my switchyard to operate more realistically, so it's time to dabble in the digital domain. I've ordered a 30000 tank engine, and want to know what else I'll need to convert my switchyard to digital operation.

As I've described in a previous post, the idea is for the lok to maneuver back and forth from one end of the switchyard to the other. Currently, when the lok reaches a contact track, it shuts down power to the track. Then a reverse pulse reverses the lok direction, and power is re-applied to the track. Strictly analog, accomplished with relays.

If I go digital for this section, I'm assuming I'll need a controller of some sort, perhaps a 6021? Does this unit provide track power as well, or do I need a DC power supply? How is reversing accomplished automatically?

If you want to use a 6021 that is fine for controlling a digital loco in a fairly basic manner, and it could be persuaded to do what you want ... but ...

To power the 6021 itself you b=need a transformer. You can probably use an existing transformer that you have, but it will need to be one of the later ones with a plastic case, and a minimum of 30VA. Then to do the stopping and auto-reversing you will need a 6050 or 6051 computer interface, a computer, and an s88 or two, depending on what distance the loco is travelling between the two ends. The computer could be an old PC or something small like a Raspberry Pi. You could then do your own programming or if the computer uses Windows then at least one of the forum members has a program that will do what you want.

Another alternative is to use a cs1 (which could probably be purchased reasonably cheaply, and would use an existing 30VA transformer for power), cs2 or cs3. The latter two would be quite expensive if you are only wishing to have the one digital item running, but all three have a facility to set up a program to have a 'back and forth' operation without involving an external computer.


Originally Posted by: Brian McWhirter Go to Quoted Post

Another thing that I don't get is the operation of signals in the digital domain. In analog, power is shut down to the track, stopping the train. To convert to digital, is it possible to use the same signal? The impression I get is that the signal tells the train to stop, but doesn't remove power from it, thus the lights and what-not still operate.

My current processor does an excellent job of controlling signals and points. Does this all need to be ripped out to convert to Marklin digital?

I've searched the internet end-to-end looking for a paper or schematic that lays everything out, but I just seem to find bits and pieces that describe this decoder with that lok, etc.

Additionally, I'll probably convert to C-track in the switchyard, as it appears to be a bit more reliable across switching points from what I'm reading.

Anyway, those are my questions for now. Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks.
Brian


What is your 'current processor'? It is quite possible that this will be sufficient to control a 6021 through a 6050/1 interface with minimal extra effort. Your current signalling system doesn't necessarily need to be 'ripped out' if you are only looking to automate a specific operation. Running a hybrid system of what you already have and a digital controller is not impossible, it depends more on how far down the digital road you wish to go.

For documentation look on ebay or other trading sites for the Marklin 0303 book which was the handbook written to teach people how to use automation with the 6021 system. IIRC there are links on this forum to a downloadable copy. Use the 'search' function at the top of the page as I know it has been covered in at least one discussion in the past.

[edit]

Just did a search, and these two thread are probably worth looking at, they seem to contain links you should look at ...

https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...-PC-interface-with-cable

http://[/url][url]https://www.m...er-Table-7294#post483765
Offline Brian McWhirter  
#9 Posted : 01 December 2019 17:23:40(UTC)
Brian McWhirter

United States   
Joined: 16/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: CA
I appreciate the info! Give me a bit of time to wade through it, to figure out what will work for me.
Regards.
Brian
Offline Brian McWhirter  
#10 Posted : 01 December 2019 18:52:11(UTC)
Brian McWhirter

United States   
Joined: 16/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: CA
After some cursory reading about the 6051 interface, it might be a workable solution for me. If I understand it correctly, it appears to be an RS232 interface.

So, in broad strokes, I could take my existing control track pulses, through my processor (which is an AMX control system, originally designed for AV systems) and send RS232 commands to the locomotive, correct. I'm assuming it responds to simple ASCII commands to start, stop, and reverse the lok? If so, that's exactly what I'm looking for!

In looked at the CS1, and I don't believe I need that. I'm assuming the 6021 will give me speed control of a single lok, correct? I think that would be the only external (Marklin) controller I need, since I'm controlling the start and stop functions via the 6051. Other than that, I'll need a 30VA transformer to power the 6021.

Am I on the right track? (no pun intended, really!)
Much obliged!
Brian
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.547 seconds.