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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 17 October 2017 15:36:16(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, this video presents the start of the Brenner Bahn from Innsbruck in Tyrol to Bozen in South Tyrol (Italy today)

20.000 workers, and the work started in 1864 with a length of 125 km, unfortunately the video is in German.

it took 3 years to open the railway and it took 5 hours from Innsbruck to Bozen, today with the new Brenner tunnel it takes 15 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#2 Posted : 17 October 2017 15:54:47(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
20.000 workers, and the work started in 1864 with a length of 125 km, unfortunately the video is in German.

it took 3 years to open the railway and it took 5 hours from Innsbruck to Bozen, today with the new Brenner tunnel it takes 15 minutes.
15 minutes from Innsbruck to Bozen for a linear distance of 86 km?
Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 17 October 2017 16:07:23(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
20.000 workers, and the work started in 1864 with a length of 125 km, unfortunately the video is in German.

it took 3 years to open the railway and it took 5 hours from Innsbruck to Bozen, today with the new Brenner tunnel it takes 15 minutes.
15 minutes from Innsbruck to Bozen for a linear distance of 86 km?

I may misunderstood the time, the official time is 2hours
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 17 October 2017 16:09:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
here is a model of the Roco ÖBB Rh 1216

http://www.roco.cc/de/product/2...0-0-002002/products.html
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Alsterstreek  
#5 Posted : 17 October 2017 19:07:55(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Steam action on the occasion of the 150th anniversary of the "Brennerbahn".
DIlX8xfXUAE2f1e.jpg
https://twitter.com/hashtag/brennerbahn
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#6 Posted : 22 October 2017 04:14:03(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Interesting take on history, that a small number of icons possess the minds of inhabitants, and the Brenner Pass is one of them.

My friend is in his 70s, and was sent to Australia when he was 4, with his parents in 1949 out of a refugee camp in Braunschweig Germany.
This was for eventual embarkation at Trieste (if my memory is correct).
Obviously his parents would have retold the stories of his early childhhod many times, but the event he remembers was being taken on the train over the Brenner Pass.
He tells me that all the blinds had to be drawn at this point (for political reasons due to partisan problems??).
It all seems a rather roundabout route, but they were troublesome times.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 22 October 2017 05:00:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Interesting take on history, that a small number of icons possess the minds of inhabitants, and the Brenner Pass is one of them.

My friend is in his 70s, and was sent to Australia when he was 4, with his parents in 1949 out of a refugee camp in Braunschweig Germany.
This was for eventual embarkation at Trieste (if my memory is correct).
Obviously his parents would have retold the stories of his early childhhod many times, but the event he remembers was being taken on the train over the Brenner Pass.
He tells me that all the blinds had to be drawn at this point (for political reasons due to partisan problems??).
It all seems a rather roundabout route, but they were troublesome times.

regards
Kimball


Kimball, much later you had attacks on the railway line (Südtirol) South Tyrol, originally South Tyrol belonged to Austria and some purists wanted it back from Italy., so they attacked the railway line by bombing it; (Brenner railway line)
much of the older generation spoke German in those days.

(The South Tyrolean secessionist movement (German: Südtiroler Unabhängigkeitsbewegung, Italian: Movimento d'Indipendenza dell'Alto Adige) is a political movement in the Italian autonomous province of South Tyrol that calls for the secession of the region from Italy and its reunification with neighboring Austria.).
My brother when he was 14 escaped from home with some holiday money, got on the train and was heading for Italy but this is where the journey stopped, custom officers at Brenner pass noticed this young kid and of course not having a passport he was detained and bought back home.

John

Edited by user 22 October 2017 11:39:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 22 October 2017 08:12:15(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thanks John, interesting.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#9 Posted : 22 October 2017 11:27:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Interesting take on history, that a small number of icons possess the minds of inhabitants, and the Brenner Pass is one of them.

My friend is in his 70s, and was sent to Australia when he was 4, with his parents in 1949 out of a refugee camp in Braunschweig Germany.
This was for eventual embarkation at Trieste (if my memory is correct).
Obviously his parents would have retold the stories of his early childhhod many times, but the event he remembers was being taken on the train over the Brenner Pass.
He tells me that all the blinds had to be drawn at this point (for political reasons due to partisan problems??).
It all seems a rather roundabout route, but they were troublesome times.

regards
Kimball


Kmiball, much later you had attacks on the railway line (Südtirol) South Tyrol, originally South Tyrol belonged to Austria and some purists wanted it back from Italy., so they attacked the railway line by bombing it; (Brenner railway line)
much of the older generation spoke German in those days.

(The South Tyrolean secessionist movement (German: Südtiroler Unabhängigkeitsbewegung, Italian: Movimento d'Indipendenza dell'Alto Adige) is a political movement in the Italian autonomous province of South Tyrol that calls for the secession of the region from Italy and its reunification with neighboring Austria.).
My brother when he was 14 escaped from home with some holiday money, got on the train and was heading for Italy but this is where the journey stopped, custom officers at Brenner pass noticed this young kid and of course not having a passport he was detained and bought back home.

John
Hi,
The “ Suedtirol-Frage” is a touchy issue, and the broad historic explanations given are not fully accurate.
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Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 22 October 2017 11:41:19(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Interesting take on history, that a small number of icons possess the minds of inhabitants, and the Brenner Pass is one of them.

My friend is in his 70s, and was sent to Australia when he was 4, with his parents in 1949 out of a refugee camp in Braunschweig Germany.
This was for eventual embarkation at Trieste (if my memory is correct).
Obviously his parents would have retold the stories of his early childhhod many times, but the event he remembers was being taken on the train over the Brenner Pass.
He tells me that all the blinds had to be drawn at this point (for political reasons due to partisan problems??).
It all seems a rather roundabout route, but they were troublesome times.

regards
Kimball


Kimball, much later you had attacks on the railway line (Südtirol) South Tyrol, originally South Tyrol belonged to Austria and some purists wanted it back from Italy., so they attacked the railway line by bombing it; (Brenner railway line)
much of the older generation spoke German in those days.

(The South Tyrolean secessionist movement (German: Südtiroler Unabhängigkeitsbewegung, Italian: Movimento d'Indipendenza dell'Alto Adige) is a political movement in the Italian autonomous province of South Tyrol that calls for the secession of the region from Italy and its reunification with neighboring Austria.).
My brother when he was 14 escaped from home with some holiday money, got on the train and was heading for Italy but this is where the journey stopped, custom officers at Brenner pass noticed this young kid and of course not having a passport he was detained and bought back home.

John
Hi,
The “ Suedtirol-Frage” is a touchy issue, and the broad historic explanations given are not fully accurate.


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Alsterstreek  
#11 Posted : 22 October 2017 13:22:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
This reminds of an anecdote a German friend shared with me:

When vacationing in Italy, his grandfather deemed it proper to translate from German into Italian by adding the vowel "o" to German words. And each time he crossed the Austrian-Italian border by train, a view at the bi-lingual station sign "Brenner(o)" supported his approach.
Brennero_-_Brenner_Schild.jpg
Offline PeFu  
#12 Posted : 22 October 2017 17:47:04(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,208
Remember this great (?) song? It’s the German official song for the 1990 Football WC in Italy. Some non-Germans hade some mixed feelings on the text...

Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
Offline Alsterstreek  
#13 Posted : 22 October 2017 20:35:47(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Remember this great (?) song? It’s the German official song for the 1990 Football WC in Italy. Some non-Germans hade some mixed feelings on the text...
Never heard of, but anyway not my kind of music (or sport).
:o/

Offline kimballthurlow  
#14 Posted : 25 October 2017 11:45:18(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Interesting take on history, that a small number of icons possess the minds of inhabitants, and the Brenner Pass is one of them.

My friend is in his 70s, and was sent to Australia when he was 4, with his parents in 1949 out of a refugee camp in Braunschweig Germany.
This was for eventual embarkation at Trieste (if my memory is correct).
Obviously his parents would have retold the stories of his early childhhod many times, but the event he remembers was being taken on the train over the Brenner Pass.
He tells me that all the blinds had to be drawn at this point (for political reasons due to partisan problems??).
It all seems a rather roundabout route, but they were troublesome times.

regards
Kimball


To update my understanding of the 1949 refugee journey from Braunschweig Germany to Naples in Italy (not Trieste), I contacted my friend today and have learned the following:

According to what his parents told him, the southern part of Austria was then under the control of the Soviet government.
The United Nations refugee agency (at the time called the IRO or similar) negotiated the route with both Western and Eastern authorities beforehand.
However, before reaching the Brenner Pass, the passengers were told to draw the blinds.
The train was stopped by a group of Soviet (or Soviet aligned) regular troops who claimed to the railway authorities that the train was carrying Soviet citizens.
(Many of Soviet or Ukrainian heritage did occupy refugee camps in Western Germany at the time - many were also repatriated to those territories to suffer awful fates).

Anyway, there was a standoff for some hours. You can imagine the dread of those in the train at this impediment to the seeming escape out of Europe.
In the end, the railway authorities were able to convince the troops that indeed the train was on Austrian tracks and Austrian land, but the floor and seats of the passenger carriages was an entirely different matter.
They were in fact United Nations territory, and the troops would be risking a major diplomatic row if they were to interfere with one square centimetre of that train.

And so my friend and his parents (and grandmother) were able to come to Australia and start a new life.
Thanks to the Brenner Pass and long gone railway personnel who risked their jobs, and perhaps their lives.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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