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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 11 October 2017 19:26:10(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I know that there is some locomotives still have 3 pole motor but this time with mSD3 new generation decoder.
What i want to know is that there is better motor performance with the new decoder mSD3 than the old mfx?
For exemple 37003 VS 37008 diesel V100?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline MaerklinLife  
#2 Posted : 12 October 2017 06:11:45(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
In my opinion the msd3 performs very well with 3 pole motors. I have several 36xxx locokotives fitted with msd3. No problems, smooth running and so on.
Offline dickinsonj  
#3 Posted : 13 October 2017 03:31:26(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
In my opinion the msd3 performs very well with 3 pole motors. I have several 36xxx locokotives fitted with msd3. No problems, smooth running and so on.

Yes - totally true!

Even relatively primitive 3 pole motors run very well when regulated by modern PWM decoders like the mSD3 or ESU V4's. That is why you see makers returning to simpler 3 pole can motors more and more, because they work perfectly well when controlled with modern electronics. Adding more poles compensated for prehistoric electronic controls and I always tried to buy only 5 pole motors 10 years ago.

But honestly, they are no longer absolutely needed when used with advanced electronic motor controls.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline MaerklinLife  
#4 Posted : 13 October 2017 06:19:44(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Even relatively primitive 3 pole motors run very well when regulated by modern PWM decoders like the mSD3 or ESU V4's.

My findings are that at the moment, the msd3 (or mld3) controls the motors better than the ESU 4. Just a slightly smoother running when accelerating. The ESU tends to jump at certain points when accelerating. I have not been able to adjust variables to get rid of the jumping or uneven running. The msd3 is for me the #1 choice for the 36xxx locomotives.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by MaerklinLife
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 13 October 2017 08:58:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Even relatively primitive 3 pole motors run very well when regulated by modern PWM decoders like the mSD3 or ESU V4's.
They didn't run well in the days of the MSD. Märklin started using 3-pole motors before they had appropriate decoders. This way they lost my trust.

Now I read that the MSD3 does a good job - but the trust does not come back automatically.

Good five-pole motors are less challenging for a decoder and I believe they will perform better than three-ole motors using the same decoders.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 13 October 2017 09:30:17(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
What about to use DCC protocol?
It present with 28 or 126 speedsteps.
I´m pretty sure it does make difference between 28 and 126 speedsteps with the 3 pole motor.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline dickinsonj  
#7 Posted : 13 October 2017 14:18:37(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Now I read that the MSD3 does a good job - but the trust does not come back automatically.

Good five-pole motors are less challenging for a decoder and I believe they will perform better than three-ole motors using the same decoders.

I totally agree about trust in a brand and how it is difficult to re-establish once it is lost. For me it has been many small problems with new Märklin models which have eroded my trust in their products. I went for quite a while without buying any new MRR equipment after significant failures with both Märklin and ESU products.

I have several newer locos with mSD3 decoders and cheaper 3 pole can motors and they run flawlessly. I can set them to the smallest speed step at which they will move and they will crawl smoothly around my layout indefinitely, even with a long train behind them. I do not see how a 5 pole could perform any better. In the past I was a motor snob (Faulhaber motors rule!) but I have moved past that. I personally regret that these cheaper motors don't have replaceable brushes though, which I see as a bigger issue than the number of poles.

I write software to control hardware and over the last 10 years it has become an industry trend to use lower spec motors and then to compensate with higher quality electronics. I'm not saying that is necessarily the best trend but Märklin is hardly alone in doing this. I will run the cheap motors until they fail and then replace them with better quality motors, which are often available at reasonable prices.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline MaerklinLife  
#8 Posted : 13 October 2017 19:46:25(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Good five-pole motors are less challenging for a decoder and I believe they will perform better than three-ole motors using the same decoders.

5 pole is not always better. A good 3 pole will perform better than a crappy 5 pole. IMO.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by MaerklinLife
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 14 October 2017 05:00:33(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
....three-ole motors......


Confused BigGrin Flapper
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