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Offline Bones  
#1 Posted : 19 September 2017 06:56:42(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Queensland
I just need some help in clarifying why when using my old tinplate carriages does the MS3 turn off with only 3 carriages

The transformer says it has 36 va output so there should be enough power to run at least 4 carriages

I run a 24 class lcomotive with the other 185 electric loco I purchased

Is this due to a limitation on the digital outputConfused
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 19 September 2017 07:05:14(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
There is no such device as a MS3........

I assume you are referring to the MS2 with the later black case (rather than the grey one).

While the power supply (it is not a transformer, rather a switchmode power supply - there are lots of other threads on the forum talking about this) is rated at 36va, the important specification is the output capability of the MS2, which I believe is 1.9 amps.

You don't say, but I assume from your post that the tinplate coaches have interior lighting. It may well be that the power output limit is being reached.

I think the MS2 has an inbuilt display that tells you current consumption, etc. This is in the Info menu on the MS2. Refer to Page 4 of the manual.

See https://www.marklin-user...451_60113-Track-Box.aspx
Offline Bones  
#3 Posted : 19 September 2017 07:55:35(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Queensland
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
There is no such device as a MS3........

I assume you are referring to the MS2 with the later black case (rather than the grey one).

While the power supply (it is not a transformer, rather a switchmode power supply - there are lots of other threads on the forum talking about this) is rated at 36va, the important specification is the output capability of the MS2, which I believe is 1.9 amps.

You don't say, but I assume from your post that the tinplate coaches have interior lighting. It may well be that the power output limit is being reached.

I think the MS2 has an inbuilt display that tells you current consumption, etc. This is in the Info menu on the MS2. Refer to Page 4 of the manual.

See https://www.marklin-user...451_60113-Track-Box.aspx



No I have the grey box but I always get confused as to wether its an MS2 or MS3

Please note I don't use LED's I use the old 7077 light globes

Now that someone has pointed out that the supply from the grey box is only 1.9 amp which gives 34 va then its not surprisng that i can only run 3 carriages

I should have looked that up myself and thanks all for your help

That also means I will need the a CS2 or CS3 if I want run the whole 7 tinplate carriages

Again thanks for the advice
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bones
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 19 September 2017 11:28:54(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
If you replace the globes with LED strip lighting (get warm white to match the colour of the globes) you will find you will be able to run all 7 coaches with the MS2.

Have a look at the current usage meter on the MS2 for interest sake to see how much current is being used by the 3 coaches.
Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 19 September 2017 12:36:31(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I run a TEE train with a 3054 Br103 loco and 6 tinplate coaches, of which 4 are fitted with old style interior lights (The other two are awaiting LED strips). I have no problem running this train and another train at the same time on my MS2.

Do you have other devices powered from the track? The MS2 should be good for at least one fully lit train so there must be something else drawing current.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline eroncelli  
#6 Posted : 20 September 2017 10:19:41(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
Instead of installing LED strips, with some major work, check this site to have LED bulbs that fit in the existing lamp-holder:
http://stores.ebay.it/tu...p?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by eroncelli
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 20 September 2017 12:53:36(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Yep, been meaning to get some of those LED globes to replace the bulbs in my M track turnouts and 7283 catenary masts!
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 20 September 2017 13:03:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'm slowly changing over to the self-powered LED strips from Train Tech. They are easy to fit and do not rely on sliders or current conducting couplers. They are fairly expensive, but you do save money on the sliders, contact wipers, etc.

http://www.train-tech.co.../interior-coach-lighting
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Jabez  
#9 Posted : 21 September 2017 21:31:26(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm slowly changing over to the self-powered LED strips from Train Tech.

This sounds like a very interesting product line. And when you factor in the cost of lighting pickups or conducting couplers and the associated wiring, pretty competitive with rail-powered lighting cost-wise. Thanks for the heads up.
Jabez
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline Minok  
#10 Posted : 22 September 2017 21:39:21(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
An interesting approach though I cannot get past the use of batteries (that have to be replaced in each car over time) when there is perfectly good power source directly below some 2 inches away.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Jabez  
#11 Posted : 22 September 2017 22:06:36(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Fair enough.
It's a simple and convenient lighting solution (I hesitate to say the lazy man's) but I suppose it depends on how long the batteries last.
Battery is the popular 20mm diameter 2032 coin cell - lasts months in normal use, years in standby Says the mnfr.
'months' could mean a couple of months or maybe 6-12.
Maybe Ray could advise us of his experience.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline Danlake  
#12 Posted : 22 September 2017 22:17:24(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi all,

I have also used these strip for a few years now.

The lighting is good (you can get both warm white and cool white), but the best feature is the little sensor that will detect movement and turn them on automatically. With average use I would get min. a year out of them before replacing batteries.

The only disadvantages is that you have to dissemble the coaches to get access and some newer plastic coaches has very fine tolerances for the roof and it’s hard to avoid making small marks when getting the roof off...

I have been contemplating if it would be possible to have the battery coin holder underneath the coaches with 2 thin wires up to the strips?

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 22 September 2017 22:25:10(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post


I have been contemplating if it would be possible to have the battery coin holder underneath the coaches with 2 thin wires up to the strips?

Brgds Lasse


Yeah, that would be the price for entry at minimum. I'd expect one could put the coin battery holder on the bottom of the coaches.. Though the lights going out when the train stops in the station does give that very odd analog effect, doesn't it.

These days though, I' d almost be looking at possible wireless/inductive ways of getting power from the tracks though... but I think the power draw for all those LEDs is more than can be inductively transferred with such voltages in the track and over the cm or so gap from the rail to the car bottom.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Jabez  
#14 Posted : 23 September 2017 00:16:24(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Though the lights going out when the train stops in the station does give that very odd analog effect, doesn't it.

I think there is a time-delay, about 4 mins after motion stops, which prevents the lights being switched off when the loco halts temporarily at a signal or a station.

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline Bones  
#15 Posted : 30 September 2017 11:08:48(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Queensland

Hi everyone

I'm sorry I haven't posted but I and my wife are in the process of purchasing a house so that took priority

I took the advice and checked the power consumption

After a bit of thought I realised that it gives the power for each loco when selected in turn after having done this the total power consumed by both locos came to

1 amp and so this left only 0.9 amp for the coaches and four of them would be pushing the margin here

Also I noted that the temperature rose very quickly from 36 to well over 40 degrees celcius hence forth why it kept shutting down

Thus poor Horatio I will have to wait until I can get the higher output CS2 or 3 from my local dealer

He has offered to sell me a used CS2

But the house is taking priority

Once again I thank everyone for the advice and input

Your comments and advice will always be appreciated

BigGrin
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bones
Online H0  
#16 Posted : 30 September 2017 21:04:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Bones Go to Quoted Post
After a bit of thought I realised that it gives the power for each loco when selected in turn after having done this the total power consumed by both locos came to
1 amp and so this left only 0.9 amp for the coaches and four of them would be pushing the margin here
The MS2 shows the total power consumption for everything that is on the track.
Typically you have between 0.1 A and 0.6 A per loco.

Some CS2 are limited to 2.4 A, so not much better than the MS2.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline David Dewar  
#17 Posted : 07 October 2017 17:05:22(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
I am now using the Train Tech lights and find them great. Very useful for coaches where you cant fit pick ups. The batteries do last a long time (depends of course on running time) and with as said above the lights staying on for several minutes after stopping then going out it is realistic. They also make single lights for locos etc. I found that in the UK I get next day delivery if ordered in the morning. Also no flickering. I am hooked on these and will probably keep on using them .
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline RayF  
#18 Posted : 07 October 2017 19:08:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
Fair enough.
It's a simple and convenient lighting solution (I hesitate to say the lazy man's) but I suppose it depends on how long the batteries last.
Battery is the popular 20mm diameter 2032 coin cell - lasts months in normal use, years in standby Says the mnfr.
'months' could mean a couple of months or maybe 6-12.
Maybe Ray could advise us of his experience.


Sorry, I missed this question!

I have not had to change any batteries yet.

Admittedly because of the way I rotate my stock on the layout each rake of coaches only gets used for 2 - 3 weeks in the year, so I can't advise for those who run their coaches every day. Sometimes when the coaches are on my storage shelves the lights come on as I move the boxes around. The lights stay on for around five minutes. This does not seem to have drained the batteries on any of my sets yet.

As some others have commented there are coaches that are hard to open in order to change the batteries, but many of my coaches open up easily, and batteries can be changed in seconds. The tin-plate coaches, for example, are dead easy to open.

I'm sure there are methods of taking the supply from the track inductively, but at the moment I know of no system on the market to do it this way. I'll continue to buy train-tech sets for now.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline baggio  
#19 Posted : 08 October 2017 00:48:18(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Does anyone know if it is possible to cut a strip in two or otherwise make it shorter to use on shorter coaches?

Thanks.
Offline baggio  
#20 Posted : 08 October 2017 01:22:01(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I answered my own question: YES!

See the PDF instructions that are set out in the link (thank you). BigGrin
Offline Goofy  
#21 Posted : 08 October 2017 12:02:01(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,017
If you have other device like switch decoder m83 and m84 i recommended you to use external power source to save power output from the MS2.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline David Dewar  
#22 Posted : 08 October 2017 13:08:10(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I answered my own question: YES!

See the PDF instructions that are set out in the link (thank you). BigGrin

You can also add other LEDs to the strip.
Different topic but they also supply sound modules although UK outline but I reckon most diesels etc sound the same not tried one yet though.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by David Dewar
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