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Offline PMPeter  
#1 Posted : 09 August 2017 00:52:18(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
Today seems to be my day for problems. My new Marklin ICE3 that I purchased new this year from a German dealer started sitting on the station track clicking like Morse code. At the same time the lights were all flashing. The loco runs in the forward direction with no problems, but in the reverse direction it starts and stops with the clicking.

I restored the factory default decoder settings which produced no change. I deleted the loco from my CS2 and then reregistered it. Being MFX it registered like normal but then just sat on the track with all lights blinking. If I select forward the lights continue to blink. If I select reverse the clicking starts in sync with the blinking. If I select the F0 function the lights stop blinking but the clicking remains.

Ideas anyone or am I in for a warranty repair mailing to Germany?

Peter
MrB32  
#2 Posted : 09 August 2017 02:26:10(UTC)
Guest


Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 260
Hi,

It could be something as simple as some foreign object stuck somewhere or maybe one of the traction tyres has become loose and got stuck. Look underneath the train to check.
Another thing to check are the connectors between cars.
if it isn't the above, I would try and locate the source of the clicking.
First I would power down the CS2, and restart it after 1 minute or so.
If the train behaves the same, the only things I can think about are:
- Something around the motor - drive shaft - worm shaft arrangement is loose, for example, one of the drive shafts (number 24 on the explosion diagram for the model) might be partially dislodged at the motor- or worm shaft end, and needs to be put back in place. (The instruction manual shows how to open the loco), it might be worth checking that the motor is properly attached.
- the decoder is kaput Crying

hope this helps...

Let us know how you get on, I have the same model so am interested to know what caused your problem.
Offline PMPeter  
#3 Posted : 09 August 2017 04:09:30(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
The clicking is from the decoder. This set has always clicked whenever power comes on. The train is not moving just sitting on the station track. Suddenly it just started clicking and the lights started blinking. When the CS2 button is pushed for Forward control the clicking stops. When it is pushed again for Reverse the clicking and blinking start. No movement involved.

Perhaps it is another one of these CS2 update problems I have described in another post.
Offline PMPeter  
#4 Posted : 09 August 2017 16:01:19(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
Another day and after a complete power down overnight, a new power up shows that the blinking and clicking has stopped. The ICE3 is once again functioning normally.

Strange.
MrB32  
#5 Posted : 09 August 2017 17:04:47(UTC)
Guest


Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 260
Reboot solves everything :)
Offline PMPeter  
#6 Posted : 09 August 2017 17:16:40(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
I know what you are saying but reboot yesterday did nothing. Quit and restart yesterday did nothing. Complete power shutoff of the power bar and restart yesterday did nothing. Complete power bar shutoff over night and restart this morning cured the problem.

Peter
Offline dickinsonj  
#7 Posted : 11 August 2017 02:20:35(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I know what you are saying but reboot yesterday did nothing. Quit and restart yesterday did nothing. Complete power shutoff of the power bar and restart yesterday did nothing. Complete power bar shutoff over night and restart this morning cured the problem.

Peter

Yeah - I agree - what you have seen makes no sense whatsoever.

The time dependant problems that you have observed since the CS2 software update are extremely strange. I write software and something like that, which only happens after an extended period of run time is often hardware related. But your hardware has not changed and it is unlikely that it is the problem. But they could have also done something really stupid in memory management (quite easily done if written in C or C++) and it breaks after it runs a while and the available memory is exhausted.

Maybe this was a lower priority task assigned to junior programmers and not enough oversight was provided. Either way I will continue to refrain for installing any of these updates until most of the the issues are sorted out. Luckily I can do that easily since my trains are packed away for the hot, humid summer here in the eastern US. Cool
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 11 August 2017 17:05:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I know what you are saying but reboot yesterday did nothing. Quit and restart yesterday did nothing. Complete power shutoff of the power bar and restart yesterday did nothing. Complete power bar shutoff over night and restart this morning cured the problem.

Peter

Yeah - I agree - what you have seen makes no sense whatsoever.

The time dependant problems that you have observed since the CS2 software update are extremely strange. I write software and something like that, which only happens after an extended period of run time is often hardware related. But your hardware has not changed and it is unlikely that it is the problem. But they could have also done something really stupid in memory management (quite easily done if written in C or C++) and it breaks after it runs a while and the available memory is exhausted.

Maybe this was a lower priority task assigned to junior programmers and not enough oversight was provided. Either way I will continue to refrain for installing any of these updates until most of the the issues are sorted out. Luckily I can do that easily since my trains are packed away for the hot, humid summer here in the eastern US. Cool


It is not the reboot that fixed it, it was the extended time not powered.

Not an uncommon problem with some electronics when it gets properly stuffed up.

Offline dickinsonj  
#9 Posted : 12 August 2017 02:02:05(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

It is not the reboot that fixed it, it was the extended time not powered.

I have done a LOT of debugging on systems much like these, but of far greater complexity. Like the navigation system of a Blackhawk helicopter and its integration into the main aircraft control computer.

If something is better with an extended time powered off it is hardly ever software. and almost always a hardware problem. I know you didn't change the hardware but software does not rest up and feel better after some time off, even if the programmers who wrote it do. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 12 August 2017 15:57:00(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

It is not the reboot that fixed it, it was the extended time not powered.

I have done a LOT of debugging on systems much like these, but of far greater complexity. Like the navigation system of a Blackhawk helicopter and its integration into the main aircraft control computer.

If something is better with an extended time powered off it is hardly ever software. and almost always a hardware problem. I know you didn't change the hardware but software does not rest up and feel better after some time off, even if the programmers who wrote it do. BigGrin


Agreed, I believe the decoder hardware got its knickers in a twist somehow and the extended time powered off allowed whatever had gone wrong to come right.

In a past existence I did repair on a minicomputer system which had memory daughter cards that used first generation 16k x 1 memory chips. These had small memory cell sizes that were regularly disrupted by (I presumed) alpha particle radiation. The cell size was such that a single alpha particle would upset the thresholds of the transistors and result in a memory error. If you kept running the card the memory error stayed, but if left on a shelf for a week the charge caused by the alpha particle hit would dissipate and the memory would then work fine. But if you powered it up before the week was done then the charge would remain trapped and you still had the error.



MrB32  
#11 Posted : 12 August 2017 16:11:56(UTC)
Guest


Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 260
Who would have thought that my jockey (did anyone notice the smiley?) reboot comment would generate a discussion that lead to quantum mechanics. At this rate the twilight zone will soon be reached. BigGrin
Offline dickinsonj  
#12 Posted : 13 August 2017 01:12:41(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: MrB32 Go to Quoted Post
At this rate the twilight zone will soon be reached. BigGrin


Here in the US it feels like the twilight zone has already been reached!

I have read about those random memory errors in older hardware, but I have never had to deal with that issue on any of our systems. I think that we can essentially rule that out in a modern chip, although I have learned the hard way to never say no to any theory until you check it out. Hardware/software systems are amazingly complex and can be very difficult to debug.

In fact it is quite possible that we will never figure out what went wrong in Alan's case, which for me is frustrating because there is an answer. If it is a software problem in the latest update then it will be easily fixed in a new revision.

Good luck guys - I am still holding off on this update until it is stable.

Thanks for the input.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline anthpao  
#13 Posted : 13 August 2017 01:41:55(UTC)
anthpao

Greece   
Joined: 20/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 125
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
How many pickup shoes the ICE have? If two one at each end then the clicking was the relay that switches which pickup shoe delivers the power to the decoder. Maybe it is failling.
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