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Question This V160 motor has 3 capacitors?? - V160 possibly from 29845 starter set.
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Offline Cyborg  
#1 Posted : 01 July 2017 12:27:09(UTC)
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Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
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Hi everyone,
I've recently relapsed and become addicted to completing my ever evolving layout.
Some time ago I bought a second hand Marklin V160 deisel locomotive which I think came from a 29845 starter set. It was in as new condition. It has a 5 pole motor with a delta decoder. It ran ok for a while then kept stopping and starting. I dismantled it, cleaned it all up, including armature etc and replaced the brushes. I also fitted a MFX decoder with sound.

The engine ran much better but still occasionally stops a starts. I'm guessing it may be either faulty resistors or capacitors. This is what is confusing me, all my motors on my other locomotives have brush plates with one capacitor, but this one has three. Does anybody have any idea if I'm on the right track in my diagnosis and why this motor has 3 capacitors?

I have attached a photo.

Regards

Paul
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 01 July 2017 12:35:42(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Paul,

Märklin have a simple system: locos with Delta decoders have serial numbers that are prefixed with "M". If it is "H" the loco was fully digital (and that would fit the 29845, the number of that one is V 160 029).

Remove the two capacitors that go to ground. With modern decoders they do not do any good AFAIK.
Your problems probably will persist. Check the axle bearings and make sure the truck with the slider has good contact to the frame.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 01 July 2017 13:06:27(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
Some time ago I bought a second hand Marklin V160 deisel locomotive which I think came from a 29845 starter set. It has a 5 pole motor with a delta decoder.


The 29845 locos were never delta locos, they have 6090x style digital decoders with mouse piano keyboards for changing the digital address.
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Offline Tex  
#4 Posted : 01 July 2017 22:06:55(UTC)
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Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Paul,

Märklin have a simple system: locos with Delta decoders have serial numbers that are prefixed with "M". If it is "H" the loco was fully digital (and that would fit the 29845, the number of that one is V 160 029).

Remove the two capacitors that go to ground. With modern decoders they do not do any good AFAIK.
Your problems probably will persist. Check the axle bearings and make sure the truck with the slider has good contact to the frame.


I have a V160 model number M3675 with a number of V 160 029 . It has a Marklin Fx keyboard decoder.

Tex

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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 01 July 2017 22:13:52(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
I have a V160 model number M3675 with a number of V 160 029 . It has a Marklin Fx keyboard decoder.
The 3675 should have number V 160 010 according to H.F. Kern's list. Maybe motor and decoder have been swapped with another loco.
36xx locos have non-FX keyboard decoders and serial numbers with a "D" prefix.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Tex  
#6 Posted : 02 July 2017 02:16:23(UTC)
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Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
I have a V160 model number M3675 with a number of V 160 029 . It has a Marklin Fx keyboard decoder.
The 3675 should have number V 160 010 according to H.F. Kern's list. Maybe motor and decoder have been swapped with another loco.
36xx locos have non-FX keyboard decoders and serial numbers with a "D" prefix.



The engine was purchased on e bay without a box. It has the number H8046775 which indicates it is fully digital. What is correct model number. It also has the three capacitors as shown in the photograph. This engine has been a solid performer for years.

Tex
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Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 02 July 2017 05:23:25(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the job, who ever done it) wasn't done to the best standards, I'm also concerend about the tension spring on the left hand side, it looks like it got solder on it. there is another diode (TV interference) missing on the left hand side as well. as Tom mentioned just leave the capacitor between the spring holder and remove the other 2, if you want to get a better performance out of the loco you could install a ball bearing in the back, just remove the plastic insert and drop in a 4mm x 1.5mm x 2mm ball bearing.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Cyborg  
#8 Posted : 02 July 2017 06:36:00(UTC)
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Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Thanks everyone for their suggestions and help. Evidently this is from a 29845 starter set. The locomotive is a V160 029. I am now educated on the difference between delta decoders and digital ones with the 'mouse piano keyboard FX decoders'. I'm always learning.

I have now put it all together again without 2 of the capacitors, tidied up the soldering and replaced the diode. It is now running like a dream.

regards

Paul

p.s. does anyone know why these have 3 capacitors and the newer ones have only one?
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 02 July 2017 08:12:49(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
p.s. does anyone know why these have 3 capacitors and the newer ones have only one?
Older decoders use a rather low PWM* frequency - and at low frequencies those capacitors do not interfere much. So maybe they do a good job with respect to radio interference suppression.

Modern decoders use high frequencies and capacitors draw more power when the frequency increases.

* PWM: Pulse Width Modulation
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline artfull dodger  
#10 Posted : 06 July 2017 01:49:11(UTC)
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artfull dodger

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Joined: 31/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 476
Location: Indiana, Kokomo
I have the exact same engine, picked it up real cheap! Mine runs fine with the 3 capacitors with my MS2. But I do have a question, what is Function 1 for? Function 2 and 3 are the high and low horns. It shows a F1 on the MS2 but activating it does nothing that I notice. That said, old owner said she was noisy running. Mine is one of the quietest spur gear drive M's I have! I do also need a replacement traction ring as 1 of the 4 is missing completely. Mike
Silly NT's..I have Asperger's Syndrome!!!!
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Offline Cyborg  
#11 Posted : 06 July 2017 02:17:50(UTC)
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Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hi Mike,

from memory, I think it turns the braking delay on and off (I converted mine to MFX).

I have to say that now I have fixed it up by cleaning, re-soldering connections and chokes (which I thought were resistors!), removing 2 capacitors, (though this did not seem to affect it one way or another), it is running really well.

regards

Paul
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Offline artfull dodger  
#12 Posted : 06 July 2017 03:39:50(UTC)
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artfull dodger

United States   
Joined: 31/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 476
Location: Indiana, Kokomo
Glad you got yours running good. I want to put a MFX sound decoder in mine eventually. Espically after listening to one with factory MFX sound over on youtube. I do really like how it runs, super smooth. Mike
Silly NT's..I have Asperger's Syndrome!!!!
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Offline Cyborg  
#13 Posted : 06 July 2017 04:07:39(UTC)
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Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
I put a Marklin 60976 sound decoder in. It was fairly easy to install and sounds great. The motor runs very smoothly with it.
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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 06 July 2017 08:05:03(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
from memory, I think it turns the braking delay on and off
Nope.
With those mouse-piano fx decoders ABD (ABC) was always on F4 (unless it was disabled).

And F1 was always on in analogue mode. Therefore F1 was not used with many models.

According to the Mobile Station loco database, F1 is unused with the V 160 from the 29845 set.

As written before: three capacitors are no problem with those older decoders.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Tex  
#15 Posted : 06 July 2017 21:30:23(UTC)
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Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
from memory, I think it turns the braking delay on and off
Nope.
With those mouse-piano fx decoders ABD (ABC) was always on F4 (unless it was disabled).

And F1 was always on in analogue mode. Therefore F1 was not used with many models.

According to the Mobile Station loco database, F1 is unused with the V 160 from the 29845 set.

As written before: three capacitors are no problem with those older decoders.


Agree, the engine we are discussing that came with stater set 29845 is listed by Krolls as 3675.10. The F1 function has no response on my engine as mentioned by others. The only non-standard feature of this engine is that it has brighter lights than any of my other Marklin diesels. Is there a reason for this ? Tex
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Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 07 July 2017 09:21:25(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
from memory, I think it turns the braking delay on and off
Nope.
With those mouse-piano fx decoders ABD (ABC) was always on F4 (unless it was disabled).

And F1 was always on in analogue mode. Therefore F1 was not used with many models.

According to the Mobile Station loco database, F1 is unused with the V 160 from the 29845 set.

As written before: three capacitors are no problem with those older decoders.


Agree, the engine we are discussing that came with stater set 29845 is listed by Krolls as 3675.10. The F1 function has no response on my engine as mentioned by others. The only non-standard feature of this engine is that it has brighter lights than any of my other Marklin diesels. Is there a reason for this ? Tex


Earlier digital locos had lower voltage lamps intended for analogue operation. They glow more brightly when fed the full voltage from the digital decoder. Afterwards they generally came with higher rated bulbs which are not so bright, but these are very dim when you run them in analogue operation.

The latest locos are all fitted with LED headlights which have a more constant brightness for a range of voltages.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Tex
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