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Offline siroljuk  
#1 Posted : 27 February 2017 11:07:08(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
Hello BigGrin BigGrin

I received finally Märklin's latest book of CS3. It is written in German language ( sorry to say that English version is only coming in next quarter of the year.)

I've been browsing the book back and forth and trying to translate myself a few interesting points. I must admit that I really have to wait for the English version and read it before I can give you proper own analysis of the contents of the book.

As far as I can say all basic functions of CS3 are described in detail in the book pages. There are also good information about new decoders and digital devices which are currently available. And many tables of information about CV's possible values etc. etc.

BUT . . . because I have used CS3 Plus for few months, I could not find anything new from the book. Present version of CS3 Plus is working just like described in the book so I can say that CS3 Plus is now ready and it's programs are at good level.ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp .

At the end of the book I found this:

"All rights reserved. Reprint, also preferably, only with written permission. This also applies to the inclusion in ectronic databases and copies on CDROM. The editors do not accept any liability for unsolicited manuscripts, photos and illustrations.
The information and advice contained in the Bookazine were carefully examined by the editors. However, authors and editors can not accept any liability for possible deviations and / or errors in the data, as well as any resulting material damage, property or personal injury. The disclaimer also applies to dates and prices."

(It is Google translation)

So I cannot give you any picture of the book.

I have made a reservation of the English version of that book and I will comment more detailed after I get that book.


Ps. One interesting detail I found: where they write about contacts and devices which handle contacts in one sentence they say something about future. And I think that it means that something new features are coming within new version of current device's programs and perhaps even new devices are coming for better automation of using Routes.

This is only my speculation OhMyGod OhMyGod and of course hope.

Regards

Jukka
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Offline steventrain  
#2 Posted : 27 February 2017 16:35:27(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I have order the english version 03092 coming in Spring.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Minok  
#3 Posted : 27 February 2017 20:31:02(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post

So I cannot give you any picture of the book.


I have no idea what the copyright laws in your country are is particular, but I would be willing to bet that you CAN take a photo of the front of the book and post that photo, and not violate copyright law.
While Märklin may hold the copyright to the contents of the book and its CD, that does not mean it automatically gets the copyright of a photograph taken of the book.

Certainly within the USA copyright laws, one can even use excerpts from a copyrighted work if it is for educational or review purposes (you just cannot duplicate the entire contents (or almost all of them).

So this book is mostly the printed manual for a CS3, with some additional info about the accessories that would work in conjunction with the CS3 then.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 27 February 2017 22:23:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Certainly within the USA copyright laws, one can even use excerpts from a copyrighted work if it is for educational or review purposes (you just cannot duplicate the entire contents (or almost all of them).
We have to comply with Swedish copyright laws to keep our webmaster out of trouble.

I don't think this forum qualifies as "educational purpose". And quoting 90% of the text for "review purposes" could also be seen as a violation of copyright laws.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 28 February 2017 00:07:17(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
We have to comply with Swedish copyright laws to keep our webmaster out of trouble.


Isn't the Wikileaks server hosted in Sweden? Seems to work for them publishing the world's secrets, a few hints and tips on the CS3 would be nothing in comparison.
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Offline dominator  
#6 Posted : 28 February 2017 03:03:55(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
I have learned a lot from this forum so I would suggest it is educational. It is also free information so must necessarily follow that it is free education.
Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline siroljuk  
#7 Posted : 28 February 2017 07:55:31(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
HelloBigGrin BigGrin

I think we can think that this is an advertisement:
















Pictures are not very goodBlushing Blushing , but here you can imagine what kind of information you can get from this book.

This book is better than the previous one, from which you could learn the relevant digital-information to-CS2 point of view.

I really wait for English version of this book, it it very good information about steering Digital Model Trains using CS3.


Regards

Jukka

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Offline Minok  
#8 Posted : 28 February 2017 21:44:36(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Certainly within the USA copyright laws, one can even use excerpts from a copyrighted work if it is for educational or review purposes (you just cannot duplicate the entire contents (or almost all of them).
We have to comply with Swedish copyright laws to keep our webmaster out of trouble.

I don't think this forum qualifies as "educational purpose".


I'd say the whole point of this forum is educational purposes. In US law it doesn't mean its tied to official teaching institutions.

But ok, we can add some fun stuff to the image and make it a 'satire of Märklin and the bizarre European world of copyright law'.

I understand keeping the website owners out of hot water.
I had a similar discussion with Stummi Forum owner on the seeming absurdity that in talking about a Märklin loco one is NOT allowed to use the Märklin photo of said loco.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 28 February 2017 23:26:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I had a similar discussion with Stummi Forum owner on the seeming absurdity that in talking about a Märklin loco one is NOT allowed to use the Märklin photo of said loco.
The copyright notice on the Märklin site says you are not allowed to use those pictures without written permission. Do not blame Stummi for taking no risk and ask Märklin for a written permission.

https://www.maerklin.de/en/disclaimer/
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Hackcell  
#10 Posted : 01 March 2017 05:55:22(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I had a similar discussion with Stummi Forum owner on the seeming absurdity that in talking about a Märklin loco one is NOT allowed to use the Märklin photo of said loco.
The copyright notice on the Märklin site says you are not allowed to use those pictures without written permission. Do not blame Stummi for taking no risk and ask Märklin for a written permission.

https://www.maerklin.de/en/disclaimer/


So, pretty much if I want to show the picture of a M loco, I have to take the picture instead of using the picture taken by M?

Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 01 March 2017 07:59:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
So, pretty much if I want to show the picture of a M loco, I have to take the picture instead of using the picture taken by M?
If you want to show a picture legally, you have to make sure you have the right to post it.
Taking your own pictures is a good start.

What's the point of showing catalogue pictures in the New Loco Arrivals thread?

AFAIK it is legal to publish photos of the Eiffel tower taking at daytime, but illegal when taken at nighttime.
Bystanders on your photos might also make showing the photo illegal without their consent.
A difficult legal matter - far beyond a book review.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline steventrain  
#12 Posted : 02 March 2017 22:04:25(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Is some the same copy on 03082/03092 from the Marklin magazin about CS3 etc?

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline NewComix  
#13 Posted : 03 March 2017 17:37:55(UTC)
NewComix

Germany   
Joined: 17/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Harsefeld, Niedersachsen
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Is some the same copy on 03082/03092 from the Marklin magazin about CS3 etc?




Hi,

I've received mine two days ago. The book is typical Märklin Magazine writing style and yes there are sections which are identical to Märklin Magazine articles. I did find the book quite useful and it has a lot of nice hints, like the maximum of mfx locos (512) and a table of locos, which can not converted by the 6094x digital conversion sets but with the recent 6084x digital conversion sets.

Kind regards
Jörg
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Offline Minok  
#14 Posted : 03 March 2017 20:19:15(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I had a similar discussion with Stummi Forum owner on the seeming absurdity that in talking about a Märklin loco one is NOT allowed to use the Märklin photo of said loco.
The copyright notice on the Märklin site says you are not allowed to use those pictures without written permission. Do not blame Stummi for taking no risk and ask Märklin for a written permission.

https://www.maerklin.de/en/disclaimer/


Thankfully in the USA at least, no matter what Märklin may say in their disclaimers I still have the US right to use the images, as is, straight out, for educational and satire purposes. But Stummi isn't US based, and German copyright law is a rather different and sometimes very quirky bird that generally results in the suppression of information. And of course this site is hosted in Sweden, right? So EU law and Swedish copyright law would apply and non of the US allowances to copyright apply here either.

The point of just linking to Märklin's images is that a picture is much more informative that an model number, which I then have to go to the Märklin site, punch into the search, bring up their page and then see.. oh, that one.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 04 March 2017 08:44:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: NewComix Go to Quoted Post
I did find the book quite useful and it has a lot of nice hints, like the maximum of mfx locos (512) [...]
Is that a CS3 limit?

Originally Posted by: NewComix Go to Quoted Post
[...] a table of locos, which can not converted by the 6094x digital conversion sets but with the recent 6084x digital conversion sets.
I thought that with the mSD Spezial and the regular mSD you should have all the options you also have with the new 6084x decoders (except for spit modes of AUX3/4).
There never was an mLD Spezial, so for non-sound conversions you have more options with the new 6098x decoders.

Funny that you have to buy a book to get such a list.
The manuals for the 6094x decoders contain lists of ref. numbers that can or cannot be converted, but those lists are incomplete and outdated.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 04 March 2017 09:03:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
The point of just linking to Märklin's images is that a picture is much more informative that an model number, which I then have to go to the Märklin site, punch into the search, bring up their page and then see.. oh, that one.
I understand that. We now have a tag that links to Märklin’s product database - perfectly legal.
Uploading a copy of that image is a different thing.

Every image that gets uploaded here without permission could mean future trouble for Juhan, even if it is "fair use" or "educational use" where the uploader lives.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline NewComix  
#17 Posted : 04 March 2017 17:43:39(UTC)
NewComix

Germany   
Joined: 17/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Harsefeld, Niedersachsen
Hi Tom,

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: NewComix Go to Quoted Post
I did find the book quite useful and it has a lot of nice hints, like the maximum of mfx locos (512) [...]
Is that a CS3 limit?


I'm not sure. I guess it's either a practical limitation of the GFP refresh cycle or a limitation of the CS3 GUI. The user can switch between pages within the loc list, but at a ertain point the system is running out of the small white buttons on the bottom.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: NewComix Go to Quoted Post
[...] a table of locos, which can not converted by the 6094x digital conversion sets but with the recent 6084x digital conversion sets.


...

Funny that you have to buy a book to get such a list.
The manuals for the 6094x decoders contain lists of ref. numbers that can or cannot be converted, but those lists are incomplete and outdated.


I think this just filling a gap between manuals published years ago (the 6094x manuals) and manuals from recent products. I know, that some locos were just on that list, because the 6094x just couldn't fit into the locomotive due to size constraints (two electronic components were a little bit too large)

Kind regards
Jörg
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H0
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