Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Poll Question : Do you actually read the technical articles that
Choice Votes Statistics
(Poll is closed)  Total 16 100%
Guests can't see poll choices and poll results. Try login or register. Guests can't vote. Try login or register. The poll has expired.
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline clapcott  
#1 Posted : 27 February 2017 02:13:26(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
So who actually reads the technical articles that are presented in the Marklin Magazin?

Specifically who persevered through the laborious reading of the "Special" Coupler Waltz article in the latest MM 2017/1 magazine

I found the loss of integrity or meaning quite apparent. However I am unsure if this was due to the base (un)availability of information about the technical foundation, the (German) journalistic interpretation, the (English) translation or some editorial need for formatting - not bothering to supply English images - coping images and loss of context .

Suffice to say, I may have understood the intent very early in the article, but the rest , IMHO, was just wading through molasses.
Below (at bottom) is my interpretation of what is stated in the wording. It is certainly not how I would program the sequence and there are conflicting statements - especially around when and how the coupler is energised.


Glossary
- "Flanke" = "Flank" = edge of waveform = transition from one state to another.
- - Transition from Off to On = Positive Flank = Leading Edge = Rising Edge
- - Transition from On to Off = Negative Flank = Trailing Edge = Falling Edge

- "Fahrtwechel" (Sonderfunktion = Special Function)
- - = (MM article) = "Running Command"
- - = (CS3 decoder "Mapping" tool) = "Speed Change"
- - = (English) = a function that toggles the "slow creep" function of the decoder on and off
.................Note 1: stops if a separate speed is dialed up on the throttle
.................Note 2: If a Reverse command is given, the motor stops, reverses and then starts creeping in te oposite direction

- "Richtungswechsel" (Sounderfunktion = Special Function)
- - = (MM Article) = "change of direction"
- - = (CS3 decoder "Mapping" tool) = "Direction Reversal"
- - = (English) = a pulse function that toggles the direction
.................Note 1: not reflected back to the control unit.
................. If the Control unit has a different direction it is reinserted on the next speed command

- "Pos. Level" = "Positive Level" = "On" or "Always On" or "Both" (e.g. for direction)
UserPostedImage


Example of CS3 "Mapping" Tool
UserPostedImage

Example of mDT/3
UserPostedImage


Best interpretation of what the article Instructions says (which may not be what it means !!)
UserPostedImage

The issue around when and how the coupler is operated draws on 3 statements
1) The overview summary at the bottom of the first paragraph on page 36.
Here is indicates (point 4) that the intention is to open the coupler sometime between the time the loco has "buffered up" and when it "pulls away"
This is fine and understood ..
However there is no reference to the Coupler closing in this synopsis

2) Following the instructions on how to "buffer up", stop and reverse. the last sentance at the bottom of the right column on pg 36 states "At the end of the sequence we now have five actions complete and the train stands there with the couplers open"
However, at no time in the prior instructions is there a step that references the setup for opening the coupler

3) Later, in the 3rd paragraph of the left column on pg 37 the statement describes "The loco has to uncouple in these 5 second (timer 2)and for this we use timer 3".
However the instructions for this state ... after assigning the Outputs Telex Coupler ... to set it for negative flank

Unlike the "special functions" for Creep and Reverse, the output functions are not toggle on and off, so this instruction setup will result in the shortest of pulses when Timer3 times out (Neg. Flank)


Reality bytes,
- It would be good to have the Timer3 expiry start another timer to hold the Telex on - But alas the decoder only has 4 Timers
- A pulse of the Telex MAY work for a relex coupler but this is far from guaranteed.

The best option is to have the Coupler up throughout the maneuver.
For this you might consider
- - re defining Time3 to run through until the locomotive has pulled away (7.0 seconds in this scenario)
- - assign the Telex Output to the Timer3 function but as "Pos. Level" (not Neg.Flank)

Edited by user 03 March 2017 01:23:40(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Minok  
#2 Posted : 02 March 2017 22:06:13(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
It does seem to be sloppy. As I'm getting the German version of the article I don't have the added problems of the translation to English.
I knew what the article was about, knew I wasn't relevant to me (yet) and just skimmed it. I'll go back and look to see what the German one has to see if its indeed sloppy editing or translation that contributed to some of the problems.
I'm curious with the non-US English speaking crowd, is 'positive flank' the term used in electrical engineering? In the US we use "rising edge" and "falling edge" with respect to state changes and such timing diagrams.

On a related note, as a German and English speaker, I got the English dubbed DVD from late 2016. Watching that and the Reynauld's interview/presentation from the Märklin person at Nürnberg, I cringed and agonized over the language being used. I immediately informed the US Club to start sending me German DVDs (my player can play PAL just fine), and I need to stay away from anything where Märklin employees try to speak English (as we would say in the South, "Bless his heart!"). Talking technical domains specific stuff isn't easy cross languages if your not wise in the domains and languages at the same time.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 03 March 2017 07:21:01(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
I thought that the idea was clever and has merit, but, as others have already noted, the use of images with German text took away the value of the article.. These things are not meant to be read - rather you get out your gear and work through the article with the magazine next to your CSx.. The problem is that those of us who use visual clues like diagrams and pictures to better understand the article will struggle to get the enjoyment of an otherwise great idea..

In short - just plain laziness on the part of Marklin has ruined a great article.. Cursing
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline Minok  
#4 Posted : 03 March 2017 17:50:33(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
After checking the German version I cannot find comparable screenshot in the German article. So the English and German versions are extremely different.

IMG_5526.PNG

So do the writers have a very early CS3 or is the CS3 GUI that badly done still today?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 03 March 2017 21:23:48(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
So do the writers have a very early CS3 or is the CS3 GUI that badly done still today?

The screenshots in the article (DarkBlue on Blue) Are from the mDT/3 which can be downloaded and run by anyone. you do not need a CS or mDP/3 until the very end when you actually publish the project to the decoder.
Ref: https://www.maerklin.de/...3msd3/mdecodertool-mdt3/

In the Header post of the topic, I included a CS3 image for perspective, mainly to highlight that each tool has a different and inconsistent usage of terminology.

Nether is optimal. The CS3 "Mapping Tool" has more english, is easier on the eyes - but has less functionality (no tree representation) and has bugs (timers not set to different values)
Note: The CS3 performs updates on the fly, there is no concept of creating a project, editing it and publishing.
This means there is an un-highlighted issue if you do not have the loco on the track or you have the CS3 on "Stop"


Peter
Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 27 March 2017 03:29:46(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Last chance.

I note, without reading too much into it, that there appears to be some polarisation with void in the middle.

I suppose it might be nice to know (qualify) which language version was being used by the various respondents ...
The question was originally posed around the English version of the article.
Peter
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.321 seconds.