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Offline Sang Joon Oh  
#1 Posted : 28 January 2017 03:00:48(UTC)
Sang Joon Oh


Joined: 13/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 14
Hello.

I have a signal (76397).
It has normal signal & distant signal.

I have a question.
How can I use distant signal?
I want to program that Loco decelerates when distant signal is on.
Is it need to buy for some parts for this action?

Best Regards.
Offline Robert Davies  
#2 Posted : 28 January 2017 15:27:06(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Originally Posted by: Sang Joon Oh Go to Quoted Post
Hello.

I have a signal (76397).
It has normal signal & distant signal.

I have a question.
How can I use distant signal?
I want to program that Loco decelerates when distant signal is on.
Is it need to buy for some parts for this action?

Best Regards.


I understand exactly what you are trying to do (and I like the idea) but I don't think you can do it directly using this signal. The 76397 only switches the track current based on the indication shown by the top signal head (red/yellow/green). The bottom signal head (distant) is controlled by the next stop signal ahead and there does not seem to be any way of getting an output from the 76397 corresponding to the distant signal indication so that you can do what you want.

One way to solve it is to buy another stop signal and wire that to the distant signal part of the one you already have and use that to control the track current. However there may be a way to do it via the CS2 using a k84 unit connected to a braking resistor. However, I have never tried that and since I prefer Viessmann signals to Marklin your situation is not one I have faced. Maybe someone with more knowledge of these Marklin signals will be able to help more.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Offline klarinettmeister  
#3 Posted : 28 January 2017 20:59:51(UTC)
klarinettmeister

Sweden   
Joined: 13/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 798
Location: Kirseberg
Hi! Hereˋs what Iˋve found. Correct me if Iˋm wrong.

I also have a 76397 and have tried it a few times. I also have the signal book and noticed itˋs´the most complicated signal to use depending on usage. The main signal shows the signal aspects of an entry signal for a train entering the station. Not a problem. The distant signal thatˋs stuck on the mast is a totally different story as this will show the signal aspects of the exit signal. The question is which exit signal aspects will the distant signal show?

Íf the train stop is just one track itˋs really easy as the distant signal will show the signal aspects of that exit signal and act as a block signal. I´ve been told by a train driver that the train driver stops the train manually at a station whereas some drivers have passed stations forgetting to stop forcing people to travel beck from the next staion...
However, if you have more than one track itˋs getting more complicated. Letˋs say the entry signal (76397) shows green/green and is situated before the turnout for track 1 and 2 and the turnout is changed to track 2 the distant signal on the 76397 must show the signal aspect of the exit signal on track 2! If the turnout switches to track 1 the distant signal must show the signal aspects of the exit signal 1. This could propably be achieved by using a memory function on the CS2/CS3.

To conclude the text above is to program the 76397 using 2 adresses for the main signal using the 3 signal aspects:
Stop (note that if the signal is correctly programmed the distant signal will not show any lights at all as thereˋs no use knowing the signal aspects of the next signal as the entry signal is already set on stop)
Proceed
Slow

Then the distant signal should have itˋs own adress and you could actually use the same adress as the exit signal if you only use one entry signal.

As Robert says the signals are quite dumb and will only be able to turn on or off the power to the connected track as it only has a relay. The only way to make a train deccelerate and to come to a stop before the signal is to use the 72442 brake module or a DIY brake module. You can also program the CS2/CS3 to deccelerate the train. The advantage is that you donˋt need the expensive 72442 but the great disadvantage is tha you must program very exactly and there are to many factors to count in as itˋs not reliable to use the timer functions for such situations and also you must use the same loco... The best way is to use the 72442 and either connect it seperately to a M/K83 decoder or connect it to signal via a bridge rectifier B40C800. Do not connect the signal directly to the brake module. You have to google the schematics. The bridge rectifier costs like 0,10 Euro so itˋs a better alternative than using one outlet from a quite more expensive K/M83 decoder.

What you need is a bridge rectiifer per signal B40C800 together with a brake module 72442 or a DIY solution and of course exit signals.

I hope this would clear up a few things. As I havenˋt been having any CS for 3 months I donˋt remember how I did exactly.
Offline Sang Joon Oh  
#4 Posted : 29 January 2017 05:08:29(UTC)
Sang Joon Oh


Joined: 13/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 14
Thanks a lot.
When I buy for 76397, I thought that I can program deceleration system with only 76397.
Now, I understand about signal 76397 and what parts need to prepare.

Thanks again.



thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Sang Joon Oh
Offline Minok  
#5 Posted : 30 January 2017 22:14:22(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
As others have said, the 'distant signal' part of the 76397 does not have anything to do with the main signal on the 76397. The main signal is the signal applicable at the location the 76397 signal is installed (stop, slow, proceed) and that can be out on a main line as well as at a station.

The distant signal part is an early warning to the train engineer about what the next main signal is set to, typically because the next main signal isn't visible (around a curve, bridge/berm in the way, etc) and you need the train to begin changing it speed NOW rather than when the engineer finally sees the main signal down the track (in order to avoid very large speed adjustments/breaking). As such, as mentioned by others, the indication on the distant signal is entirely dependent on what the next main signal is set to. Think of it as a pure distant signal that just happened to be mounted on the same post as the main signal because its bad to have two signals standing on after the other. So you must have that 2nd main signal to make any sense/use of the distant signal on the 76397 combo signal you have.

Now once you have that other signal, I can imagine one could put sensing systems in place to slow the loco down, speed it up, etc. In a computer or digital controlled world that may be simple, in an analog driven system, I'm not sure if/how that would work.
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