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steventrain		#1 Posted : 23 December 2016 21:09:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Just read on Marklin TV.80 about update CS2 to 32 functions next year.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Purellum		#2 Posted : 23 December 2016 21:29:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,500 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy I knew it...I knew it !! Now we all know it. Thank you Steventrain. Per.
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Tex		#3 Posted : 23 December 2016 23:06:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 276 Location: Houston, Texas		Originally Posted by: steventrain Just read on Marklin TV.80 about update CS2 to 32 functions next year. Were any reasons given for this "update" Tex
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H0		#4 Posted : 23 December 2016 23:13:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Tex Were any reasons given for this "update" Not really. He said the CS2 would receive updates for years to come. The message is that money spent on the CS2 is money well spent. Does that quality as a "reason"?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Goofy		#5 Posted : 24 December 2016 07:09:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,012		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy I knew it...I knew it !! Now we all know it. Thank you Steventrain. Per. Now you are an liar! This i did wrote was about CS3 which Märklin did present as new CSx. It has nothing to do about 32 functions. Goofy, you have been warned before about calling Per a liar. This is not acceptable behaviour in the forum. Since it is Christmas, how about showing some kindness and respect to your fellow forum members. Remember that Per showed you kindness when you meet with him and Juhan. Don't be the Grinch that stole Christmas. Edited by moderator 24 December 2016 11:19:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Goofy		#6 Posted : 24 December 2016 07:32:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,012		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Tex Were any reasons given for this "update" Not really. He said the CS2 would receive updates for years to come. The message is that money spent on the CS2 is money well spent. Does that quality as a "reason"? Time will tell when it´s to update. The question is if Märklin are ready for that,when the new CS3 is not ready yet.
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Bigdaddynz		#7 Posted : 24 December 2016 11:25:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Tex Were any reasons given for this "update" Not really. He said the CS2 would receive updates for years to come. The message is that money spent on the CS2 is money well spent. Does that quality as a "reason"? The comments are at 16:45 in Marklin TV episode 80. Florian Seiber says that there will be a few CS2 updates next year, to implement 32 functions. How long the CS2 continues to receive updates depends on how much of the limited storage that the CS2 has is used up by updates.
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Purellum		#8 Posted : 24 December 2016 11:33:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,500 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		First, I'm sorry for everybody else who reads this; but I don't like to be called a liar without being able to respond. Originally Posted by: Goofy Now you are an liar! This i did wrote was about CS3 which Märklin did present as new CSx. It has nothing to do about 32 functions. NO !!! This was what you wrote about the CS2, when you thought that it would not get 32 functions. This is exactly what you wrote: Originally Posted by: Goofy I knew it...i knew it!! It present only limited functions with the CS2. That means CS2 will not been upgrade to more functions. I´m suprised that "Challanger" do have mfx+ (my world) and it´s an generation 3 decoder. You wrote it in this topic about the 39911 Challenger: https://www.marklin-user...-item--Challenger--39911 And I think most of the forum members remember that you did. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year. Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.
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David Dewar		#9 Posted : 24 December 2016 12:55:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,340 Location: Scotland		Hi Per. I have this feeling that Goofy does not like or own Marklin controllers. Could be wrong though.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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grnwtrs		#10 Posted : 24 December 2016 22:11:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/06/2005(UTC) Posts: 669 Location: El Sobrante, California		Some of us, me specifically clearly do not understand what an update to 32 functions mean for the CS 2 Perhaps, a summary of examples would be helpful . Would that mean Engine functions?, Layout functions? I got a couple of MS2's, a MS1, plus the trusty 6021 that are challenge enough. I have wanted a CS2, but I am waiting until Marklin has decided what to do with it. I am not clear if Marklin has supplied all the LOK icons for the CS2 ? I have seen the so-called CS 2 user manual, but in the spirit of conviviality I'll refrain from expressing an opinion! I really appreciate the generosity of the boards members who do their best in bringing the explanations of the new technology by Marklin to the rest of us. Regards, gene
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franciscohg		#11 Posted : 24 December 2016 22:41:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,267 Location: Patagonia		Hi, it means 32 functions for locomotives, like the CS3 is capable now with the new decoders. Regards
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Bigdaddynz		#12 Posted : 25 December 2016 00:30:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Mr Sieber says in the Marklin TV video that he agrees that 32 functions on a loco might be too many, but on the other hand Marklin views it as an example of what they can do and something that sets them apart from everyone else. For these reasons only selected high end locos like Insider locos will have the full 32 functions.
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icerails		#13 Posted : 25 December 2016 01:11:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: QLD		The thing to remember is that you don't need to use all 32 functions at the same time. Imagine a diorama with shunting noises. No need for whistles (except for a shunting whistle), bells, station announcements when the loco is doing this work. Of course, if you have computer control it is much easier to incorporate the 32 sounds in a programmed cycle.
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H0		#14 Posted : 25 December 2016 06:57:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz [...] but on the other hand Marklin views it as an example of what they can do and something that sets them apart from everyone else. I have a few Piko locos with 29 functions and all my ESU locos have more than 20 functions. And so far only 16 functions can be used with Märklin controllers. Märklin, the self-announced "innovation pace-maker" is pretty late with respect to breaking the 16 functions limit. Of course it sounds different when Mr Sieber talks about this matter on Märklin TV. Märklin TV and Märklin Magazin are advertising means of Märklin - simple messages that sound good, but no critical questions or statements.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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MaerklinLife		#15 Posted : 25 December 2016 08:25:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: H0 Of course it sounds different when Mr Sieber talks about this matter on Märklin TV. Well, he did get a strange look on his face when asked if all those functions are really needed, just as if he thought to himself: "I know, they are not really needed" and then, with a little help from the guy interviewing, he kind of improvised that sentence about innovation. It does not seem like he really knew what to say. The English translation covers this up a bit, because the timing is a bit off, but the German version is very clear.
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RayF		#16 Posted : 25 December 2016 11:23:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,839 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		I've expressed my opinion before about how many functions are necessary. Eight is more than enough....
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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franciscohg		#17 Posted : 25 December 2016 15:16:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,267 Location: Patagonia		Well, I can just be with Ray on that, so far I never need more than the 16 offered by the CS2.......usually far less than that. Perhaps owners of modern locos with lots of light effects need more.....in the end, the most i liked about the announcement is that the CS2 software will get some updates, hopefully more than just more functions
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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river6109		#18 Posted : 25 December 2016 15:34:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,712 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		although it is an improvement one wonders how far you can go with functions and what is the idea behind it, I can't see that the train enthusiast is demanding 32 functions., the only loco apart from steam locos are Swiss locos with their complicated light system and copy them with an independent function outlet. I've mentioned it before as well, I think the technology should go into automatic set functions e.g. double header etc etc. so the decoder automatically recognizes when 2 locos are running together furthermore if you have electrical couplings these should also be assisting the interior lights coming on, toilet lights separately operated and entrance door lights but all these functions, you should be able to program them and than they are set for a particular train/carriages or locos and not for you to activate them manually. I also would like to see sensors in the track which send a digital signal to the decoder activating a horn, station announcement etc etc. at various spots you would like them to be activated. John
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mrmarklin		#19 Posted : 25 December 2016 22:44:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 890 Location: Burney, CA		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Mr Sieber says in the Marklin TV video that he agrees that 32 functions on a loco might be too many, but on the other hand Marklin views it as an example of what they can do and something that sets them apart from everyone else. For these reasons only selected high end locos like Insider locos will have the full 32 functions. AFAIK only one Lok so far has 31 functions. 37920.001. It has extras like sound of sanding, safety valve, filling sand etc. Without an update for my CS2 I cannot access these, but there are some interesting show off items for when one's friends are visiting. This Lok also has World of Märklin upgrade as well. Even though it's not my era I had to have this Lok. BR 41 was my first big steam I ever owned. (3082)
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mrmarklin		#20 Posted : 25 December 2016 22:47:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 890 Location: Burney, CA		Originally Posted by: RayF I've expressed my opinion before about how many functions are necessary. Eight is more than enough.... I tend to agree. Once sound and smoke and certain light functions are added it's tough to get excited. My layout is small enough the sound soon gets annoying. So it runs turned off much of the time .
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kiwiAlan		#21 Posted : 26 December 2016 13:16:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,101 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: mrmarklin AFAIK only one Lok so far has 31 functions. 37920.001. It has extras like sound of sanding, safety valve, filling sand etc. The Insider Railbus with trailer also has more than 16 functions, and IIRC the Challenger does as well (has this shipped at all yet?) I need to check but I have a feeling the new Insider 103 for 2017 also has more than 16 functions.
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river6109		#22 Posted : 26 December 2016 13:48:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,712 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		lets have a look at a typical electric loco: 1.) first panto up 2.) 2nd panto up 3.) cab light front 4.) cab light rear 5.) engine room light, 6.) overhead line sparks 7.) lights front 8.) lights rear 9.) marker light front 10.) marker light rear. 11.) high beam front 12.) high beam rear 13.) coupling 14.) rail noise 15.) rail clank 16.) horn low 17.) horn high 18.) double horn 19.) closing doors Swiss locos 20.) one white light rear 21.) one red light rear 22.) one red light front 23.) one white light front. 24.) sanding 25.) compressor you may can fill in more but I can't think of anymore.
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H0		#23 Posted : 26 December 2016 14:11:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		26. Operating sounds 27. Bell 28. Ventilator 29. Shunting mode 30. Acceleration/braking delay off 31. Squealing brakes off 32. Squealing in curves 33. Sound fader Plus conductor whistle, various station announcements, various radio messages, ... Maybe we should skip 32 functions and go straight for 64 functions ...
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Herrfleck		#24 Posted : 26 December 2016 17:25:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 258		Hello ! I think its enough with 8 funktions! Still has 6021 so I do not use more than 5. Sometimes I think all this technology becomes a problem. I read here in this forum that many are disappointed and some times think Märklin is bad........ Sometimes wish we probably too much,and forget the fun with märklin model railroad!?? Thats what I think.... Maybe I am wrong??? Regards Bertil.
		- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) - //Bertil
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H0		#25 Posted : 26 December 2016 19:08:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Still has 6021 so I do not use more than 5. You could use 17 functions with the CU 6021 and modern decoders. It's clear that CU 6021 users are not impressed when the CS2 will support more functions. It's clear that some CS2 users will be happy about this improvement.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Herrfleck		#26 Posted : 26 December 2016 20:02:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 258		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Still has 6021 so I do not use more than 5. You could use 17 functions with the CU 6021 and modern decoders. It's clear that CU 6021 users are not impressed when the CS2 will support more functions. It's clear that some CS2 users will be happy about this improvement. Hello Tom! Do you mean with Märklin decoders ? I only know the 5 with L button and 5 with F button..... How do I get 17 with 6021 ?? Regards Bertil.
		- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) - //Bertil
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TEEWolf		#27 Posted : 26 December 2016 21:04:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: river6109 lets have a look at a typical electric loco: 1.) first panto up 2.) 2nd panto up 3.) cab light front 4.) cab light rear 5.) engine room light, 6.) overhead line sparks 7.) lights front 8.) lights rear 9.) marker light front 10.) marker light rear. 11.) high beam front 12.) high beam rear 13.) coupling 14.) rail noise 15.) rail clank 16.) horn low 17.) horn high 18.) double horn 19.) closing doors Swiss locos 20.) one white light rear 21.) one red light rear 22.) one red light front 23.) one white light front. 24.) sanding 25.) compressor you may can fill in more but I can't think of anymore. What do you think about announcements? These are unlimited, because you can create them by yourself. And on a platform in a station you hear plenty of various announcers. Think about the messages, if a ICE is late! Or at the TEE era (like the VT 11.5), my favourite announcement was: "This train leads only first class coaches!" Which always meant too: 2nd class travelers, keep your hands off from this train. It is not for you.
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clapcott		#28 Posted : 26 December 2016 21:09:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		This announcement is not about the locomotives having "32 Functions" (more than 16) It refers to the ability for the CS2 to SPECIFICALLY address and control 32 functions (that a decoder might have), in an easy manner (the buttons/icons on the CS2). A (current technology) decoder can be setup to perform ALL its functions based on the use of a single Controller button (e.g a 6020/6035). In most cases this is quite impractical if not undesirable, but it can already be done. However in small sequences (Uncoupler waltz, choreographed sound sequence ) it can be seen as a benefit by NOT having to push multiple buttons.
		Peter
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kiwiAlan		#29 Posted : 26 December 2016 23:18:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,101 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Still has 6021 so I do not use more than 5. You could use 17 functions with the CU 6021 and modern decoders. It's clear that CU 6021 users are not impressed when the CS2 will support more functions. It's clear that some CS2 users will be happy about this improvement. Hello Tom! Do you mean with Märklin decoders ? I only know the 5 with L button and 5 with F button..... How do I get 17 with 6021 ?? Regards Bertil. ESU Loksound decoders can occupy 4 addresses on a 6021 thereby giving access to a total of 17 functions. I don't know if this capability has been included in the msd3 series decoders. I don't know if the ability to use 4 addresses was available in the previous generation marklin decoders.
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H0		#30 Posted : 27 December 2016 07:49:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		The pre-"MSD/3" decoders support four addresses, allowing to switch 15 functions from the MM protocol. ESU V4 supports four addresses, allowing to switch 17 functions. I assume the MSD/3 will support four addresses for 15, 16, or 17 functions. Don't expect more than 15 and you probably cannot be disappointed.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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clapcott		#31 Posted : 31 December 2016 20:50:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: clapcott This announcement is not about the locomotives having "32 Functions" (more than 16) It refers to the ability for the CS2 to SPECIFICALLY address and control 32 functions (that a decoder might have), in an easy manner (the buttons/icons on the CS2). . Just to reiterate further, the CS2 is constructed of a number of modules. Two of these are the 1) the part that puts commands and power onto the track (TFP) and 2) the User interfaces that take the users instructions and sends them tho the track module (TFP) - . Re 1) The Track/power module (TFP) of the CS2 has, courtesy of the CS3 updates, had an update to permit commands for 32 functions of a decoder to be sent to the track. Re 2) The interface may be either a) the CS2s physical screen and keys - b) software via the ethernet/network This announcement (sound bite) relates to the 2A aspect which means the CS2 may FULLY support the 32 functions in its own right. Control of 32 function IS available using a CS3 OR software using the CS2s TFP
		Peter
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clapcott		#32 Posted : 31 December 2016 20:52:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: H0 I assume the MSD/3 will support four addresses for 15, 16, or 17 functions. Don't expect more than 15 and you probably cannot be disappointed. My experience is that the current mSD/3 (mLD/3) firmware (v3.0.1.5)) still only allows 15(F0-F14) functions (i.e. the 4th MM address F3(=F15) and F4(=F16) are not responsive) p.s. Marklin service do not appear to understand queries on the apparent shortcoming.
		Peter
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H0		#33 Posted : 31 December 2016 21:02:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: clapcott Re 1) The Track/power module (TFP) of the CS2 has, courtesy of the CS3 updates, had an update to permit commands for 32 functions of a decoder to be sent to the track. And also to re-iterate: support for 29 DCC functions has been in the TFP for ages. But there is no way to activate them from the touch screen.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Goofy		#34 Posted : 12 January 2017 18:40:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,012		It seems CS2 will not have 32 functions. The news 2017 shows only 16 functions for CS2 while CS3 more than 16 functions with the news 2017. Not even information in Märklins homepage present upgrade future for the CS2. I´m sceptical.
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H0		#35 Posted : 12 January 2017 18:53:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy The news 2017 shows only 16 functions for CS2 while CS3 more than 16 functions with the news 2017. And they always show just 5 functions for CU 6021 while we all know the actual limit is 15 for current models (9 for some older models). I don't take the symbols in the new items brochure as a bad sign.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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clapcott		#36 Posted : 12 January 2017 22:11:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		As a footnote ... Monitoring the CAN bus traffic when a mSD/3 decoder is being registered, it can be seen that mfx-CV18 (not to be confused with DCC CVs or MM Registers) is the Info field for the Mapping block (Type #4) and it reports x46 (decimal 72) items. Of the 72 .. - 5 of these items are the functional mapping : Tag=33 (The internal programming stuff of the m*/3's) , - 1 appears to be for the 4 timers : Tag = 34 - leaving 64 of Tag = x10(dec 16) - of which the CS only bothers to read 32 normally. The others may be written to and read through. I am not saying 64 function WILL see the light of day, but at least one bit of existing hardware appears to have the infrastructure ready
		Peter
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Minok		#37 Posted : 13 January 2017 21:44:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		For the functions bonanza on the decoder, have a look at the insider 103 coming out in 2017: http://www.maerklin.de/e...s/details/article/39170/ It has the 31 functions that at this point on only the CS3 supports. What interests me is which ones are in the range above what the MS2 can access: Blower motors Compressor Letting off Air Station Announcements Procedure function Greeting Conductor Train announcement Conductor Train announcement Conductor Train announcement Dialog Train radio Warning announcement Surrounding sounds I think I'd like to use some of those (such as station announcement or warning announcement) in lieu of some of the first 32 I'd never use: Headlight(s) Pantograph control Electric locomotive op. sounds Locomotive whistle Pantograph control Engineer’s cab lighting Headlight(s): Cab2 End Whistle for switching maneuver Headlight(s): Cab1 End Direct control Sound of squealing brakes off Locomotive engineer Interior lights Conductor's Whistle Special Function
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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clapcott		#38 Posted : 14 January 2017 22:55:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: Minok It has the 31 functions that at this point on only the CS3 supports. <brokenRecord> Please be very careful about making statements like this, as they leave an implication that there is an explicit link between multiple aspects that is not correct. Sure , the item may ship from the factory with 31 functions visible. and Sure , the CS3 currently has provision for 32 function buttons per locomotive However - there is a configurable mapping of a function to a function ID (for button usage) , which includes the ability of multiple functions per function ID and - with m*D/3 decoders there is a decoders ability to chain functions in a sequence - saving on manual micromanagement In the later case it is actually a benefit that the additional decoder functions do not have a button assigned, as the button/controller state does not accurately represent what the decoder is doing. </brokenRecord>
		Peter
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Minok		#39 Posted : 17 January 2017 20:51:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: clapcott Originally Posted by: Minok It has the 31 functions that at this point on only the CS3 supports. <brokenRecord> Please be very careful about making statements like this, as they leave an implication that there is an explicit link between multiple aspects that is not correct. ... </brokenRecord> Fair enough (though I don't think I was present for the prior playing of the record)... I' was only reflecting the impression Märklin itself leaves in my mind based on how Märklin presents its loco data. There is no 'asterisk' or footnote that goes with the Central Station (non-3) column that then leads to an "except if you configure a CS2 it this or that way .." explanation. The chart, as presented by Märklin leaves me (the non long-time expert) with the impression a CS3 is needed to get the additional functions. From a business perspective, Märklin likely marketing the need for a CS3, even though (as you suggest) it may not technically be necessary.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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clapcott		#40 Posted : 18 January 2017 06:27:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: Minok There is no 'asterisk' or footnote that goes with the Central Station (non-3) column that then leads to an "except if you configure a CS2 it this or that way .." explanation. Yes I acknowledge the lack of detail in the marketing blurb. However it is not the controller that gets configured, it is within the decoder that the mapping is done.
		Peter
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kiwiAlan		#41 Posted : 18 January 2017 14:43:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,101 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Minok Originally Posted by: clapcott Originally Posted by: Minok It has the 31 functions that at this point on only the CS3 supports. <brokenRecord> Please be very careful about making statements like this, as they leave an implication that there is an explicit link between multiple aspects that is not correct. ... </brokenRecord> Fair enough (though I don't think I was present for the prior playing of the record)... I' was only reflecting the impression Märklin itself leaves in my mind based on how Märklin presents its loco data. There is no 'asterisk' or footnote that goes with the Central Station (non-3) column that then leads to an "except if you configure a CS2 it this or that way .." explanation. The chart, as presented by Märklin leaves me (the non long-time expert) with the impression a CS3 is needed to get the additional functions. From a business perspective, Märklin likely marketing the need for a CS3, even though (as you suggest) it may not technically be necessary. That is the current situation if you wish to use more than 16 functions. Once the cs2 has a software update (that has been announced, but with no timescale) that enables it to control more than 16 functions then the chart you posted is correct. Once the software update has been issued, then I guess all subsequent items introduced with more than 16 functions available will have a footnote on the table showing >16 functions with a cs2 using software revision x.xx.xx (whatever it works out to be). I think it is currently on 4.something, so I suspect the revision with >16 functions will be 5.something. However despite the various announcements that the cs2 is going to eventually get an update to >16 functions, with no delivery date given it could still fall through the cracks and never appear.
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clapcott		#42 Posted : 18 January 2017 20:16:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		So, - We have decoders that offer more than 16 functions (have for quite a while - DCC and mFX) - the CS2 booster (tfp) that is capable of switching more than 16 function IDs (have had for a while - recently up to 32) Therefore the question is HOW the CS2 might offer the user the ability to leverage the core infrastructure. The simplest forma are with no screen changes and to 1)- just expand the Memory's capability to configure for the greater number of functions. 2)- only update the CS2-PC software For the GUI (screen) the option might be 3)- add two fixed columns of 8 on EACH side of the screen 4)- redefine the screen for a single throttle and use the two columns on each side (with 16 tactile buttons) for a single locomotive 5)- impose a CS3 slip and slide concept If Marklin are stupid enough to impose the rubbish that is the CS3 regime on the CS2, then I know at least one CS2 that will not be updated! My vote is for 4) followed by 2) maybe with .... Additional Wishlist stuff if the GUI is to be redesigned, - it would be an opportune time to add extra buttons to allow those memory routines that are not within the decoder to be triggered without stealing a button for a function that is in defined the decoder - Some QuickAccess buttons for , say, 6 locos - Substantive buttons that any finger can press
		Peter
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Minok		#43 Posted : 19 January 2017 23:00:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan That is the current situation if you wish to use more than 16 functions. Once the cs2 has a software update (that has been announced, but with no timescale) that enables it to control more than 16 functions then the chart you posted is correct. The chart is accurate at present, the chart has no column for the CS2 in fact. It just has CS, and to the right of that is CS3. So in another reasonable though possibly ill-advised assumption, one would conclude that the CS2 has the same functionality as the CS (that is the CS column covers the CS and CS2), and the CS3 is separate. Probably the chart should be CS/CS2 CS3 - and once the update happens shift to CS CS2/CS3 ... but Marklin decided not to deal with that confusion and complexity and just leave CS2 off the chart entirely until the update arrives. (which does add weight to the update coming)
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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H0		#44 Posted : 20 January 2017 08:11:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: clapcott For the GUI (screen) the option might be 3)- add two fixed columns of 8 on EACH side of the screen 4)- redefine the screen for a single throttle and use the two columns on each side (with 16 tactile buttons) for a single locomotive 5)- impose a CS3 slip and slide concept Or follow the example of the CS1R: a key on the screen cycles the second column between F8-F15, F16-F23, F24-F31. Or to make it different: toggle both columns, so you see F0-F15 or F16-F31. The toggle button could be beside the wrench button. Either way it is just a small change in the UI. One extra button that changes the function of some other buttons. Sounds like one or two hours work for a capable programmer, then 1 or 2 days for quality assurance (Märklin and quality assurance ) and then distribute the package.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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steventrain		#45 Posted : 02 February 2017 18:04:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Reply from Marklin. Quote: it is shure that we will have a Update for the CS2 60213/14 to be a able to switch 32 functions. It will come this year, software update are often coming later then plant so I can not give you yet an exact date.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Purellum		#46 Posted : 02 February 2017 22:03:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,500 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: steventrain Reply from Marklin. Quote: it is shure that we will have a Update for the CS2 60213/14 to be a able to switch 32 functions. It will come this year, software update are often coming later then plant so I can not give you yet an exact date. I knew it, I knew it. Thank you Steventrain. Per.
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