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Offline ShadowXIX  
#1 Posted : 04 December 2016 04:39:31(UTC)
ShadowXIX

United States   
Joined: 22/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: USA
Hey again everyone,
I purchased a set of MTH 3 rail AC engines recently.
I am running a MS2 for control and using C track.
I have been very pleased with the 4-8-4 engines (SP and WP) I purchased but am having issues with the Big Boy.
Every time I place it on the rails, regardless of which position the DCS/DCC switch is in, it shorts the system out and forces an emergency stop.

My questions are this:

1: which position is the "DCC" position for the DCS/DCC switch? Is it the one where the switch is closest to the engine cab or closest to the rear of the tender? I can not find a label or anything in either the quick start guide or the online manual specifying which is the DCC position.

2: Any one had this problem before? I really don't want to have to send back to MTH but will if I have to...


3: anyone out there had an issue with the MTH engines running into the studs on the C track?, especially on the raised studs on the turnouts.

Thanks for any help you can provide


Offline blid  
#2 Posted : 04 December 2016 16:09:16(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I checked my Challenger and the switch is pushed backwards. The tender seems to be the same as the tender of the Big Boy and the picture and text in the manuals are the same. My Big Boy is not accessible at the moment. I have asked MTH to update the online manual with this information…

As far as I can recall, my Big Boy had the same symptoms, so I brought it back to MTH. I think they changed the decoder while I waited.

About studs, especially the latest batch of Marklin slim turnouts. I had to shorten the pilots of the Daylight and SD70ACe (back and front). The metal pilot of the Daylight quit a lot.

I have also had problems programming long addresses for some MTH steamers with my CS2. CS1 reloaded has been able to do it (except for the upgraded 1-gauge MTH steamers).

blid
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
Offline Nielsenr  
#3 Posted : 04 December 2016 18:46:27(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
I checked my MTH Big Boy and like Blid said, it should be in the position pointed to the back of the tender. I have had a loco or two that have done what you said and I sent them back to MTH for repair.

I have around 60 MTH locos (I count a loco as a single item if it can run by itself, thus an A-B consist would count as two locos since the A and the B unit can run by themselves). I have gotten most of them at very good prices. Yes, some of them have had problems with the center studs on turnouts and the slim turnouts are the worst. I agree with Blid the Daylight GS4 was horrible. I too had to file the front down to have it miss the studs. Some of my SD70s required filing while others did not. Also the fuel tanks on some of the diesels sit quite low (prototypical?) so they can have problems if the throw bar on the exiting switch is not in the right position. Also these same locos do not like turnout lanterns. Neither of these problems are deal killers for me.

I do like the newer connection between the boiler section and the tender in the newer steamers better.

One complaint (not a deal killer) is that some locos do not start back up with sound and lights after a stop section. MTH apparently has made a firmware change along the line because the steamers and some newer locos now have sound and lights when they start up. Supposedly, there is some new firmware for some of the locos that you can download to a loco to update the firmware. I have some emails to MTH to confirm but no response yet. I did finally find some instructions on the Internet on how to do it. You do need a MTH DCS TIU to upload the firmware. I am borrowing one from a friend who does Lionel and MTH O Gauge trains to see if it works. I do like that the MTH locos all run a scale speed when in 128 speed step mode. You can set the speed of any two MTH locos to the same setting on the CS2 and the will match their speeds. It makes doing multiple loco consists so easy. I did have a PA loco that started running faster then the others. I sent it back to MTH and they reloaded the firmware. A friend just got an F3 loco that runs faster. His loco will be the first one I try downloading the firmware myself and see if it solves the problem.

As for Blid's problem of setting long addresses, I have not had that problem.

I have bought the MTH locos because I wanted a bigger variety of US style locos. The MTH locos are a little more finicky than Marklin locos, but once you get them running right, they are very nice. I helped build a Marklin 3 rail US based layout for a friend. I did all of the track construction and wiring, he is doing the scenery. I have added blocks for multiple trains on the same track as well as alternating trains in the station. We run MTH locos as well as Marklin locos and the layout is working well. I am also building a Marklin layout for a client in Charlotte, NC. So far I have built a lower hidden station with two four track stations and a helix to get to the upper levels. To test what I have done, I have created a temporary return loop at the top of the helix and I can run four trains through five blocks and alternate trains stopping in the two stations. I mention this because I am using MTH locos to test the construction to date. I figure if I can get the MTH locos to work without problems, Marklin locos should work easily. It is not the best video, but here is one showing the operation of the lower level and helix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLiVXCiSrOE&t=7s

To sum it up, I think you may need to send your Big Boy nack to MTH for repair.

Robert

Offline ShadowXIX  
#4 Posted : 04 December 2016 19:24:06(UTC)
ShadowXIX

United States   
Joined: 22/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: USA
All,
Thank you all for the replies, much appreciated.
I was thinking about the studs last night again.
I know everyone said they shaved the pilots on the engines.

Would it be a better solution to shave the studs on the turnouts? Would the turnouts still work with the Marklin and MTH engines if I did that?
Alternatively, are the studs on K track any lower than the C track studs?

I prefer and like C track but I am at the point where I don't have much invested in C track(just a basic loop) so I could swap over to K track without heartache.

And I agree, I really like these engines, thats why I want them all to work

Thanks,
Paul
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 04 December 2016 21:17:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Paul!
Originally Posted by: ShadowXIX Go to Quoted Post
Would it be a better solution to shave the studs on the turnouts?
Bad idea for slim C track turnouts: the studs have to lift the centre-rail slider over the rails to prevent a short circuit.

Rails are isolated with the C track turnouts that have small radii.
But the difference between rails and studs will be small and shaving them off may not resolve the issue.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline blid  
#6 Posted : 04 December 2016 21:31:33(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I advice against shaving the studs. They are higher up on turnouts for a reason. The center power pickup – slider or whatever – needs to be pushed up above the rails. If not, there would be a short circuit. The odd high stud OK - but not more than the corresponding stud of other unshaved turnouts of the same kind. You will probably have to shave some pilots anyway.

Robert; have you used a CS2 to set long addresses for MTH steam engines?

blid
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
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Offline Nielsenr  
#7 Posted : 05 December 2016 05:46:25(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
Robert; have you used a CS2 to set long addresses for MTH steam engines?




Blid,

Yes, I have used a CS2 to change to long DCC addresses but there is an apparent glitch.

I like the MTH locos because when you send a change in CV to the loco it beeps (some B units don't). So I go into the POM screen and change CV17 and send it to loco ... it beeps. I then change CV18 and send it ... the loco beeps. At this point the loco still responds to the default address 3. I then change CV29 to the value 38 (I think it is 39 for reverse operation. For ABBA operation, I set the front AB units to forward and the back AB units to reverse. I use the same address for all four locos.) and I send it ... the loco beeps. I click the green check to save. Now you would think the loco would respond, but it does not. Click on the tool bar icon and the correct address is there, but the loco doesn't respond. But I found that if you change the address in the tool bar menu back to 3 and save it, of course the loco will not respond. But go back into the tool bar menu again and change the address to what you have changed the CVs to and save it, the loco will now respond. It sounds like an extra couple of stupid steps, but it does work. I can't remember if I have to do it to the few Roco DCC locos I have or not.

Hope this works for you.

Robert
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Offline ShadowXIX  
#8 Posted : 08 December 2016 04:06:35(UTC)
ShadowXIX

United States   
Joined: 22/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: USA
Blid or Nielsenr,
Any chance you could post here or PM me a pic of the front pilots you had to shave down? Especially looking for pics of the GS4/GS6 pilots so I know how far I have to go.
What tool did you use?
Dremel/Small tool with a metal cut off wheel?


My guess is that MTH used the HO DC version tooling for these that doesn't have to worry about studs and didn't test whether or not they would actually go through a "normal" Marklin layout.

Thanks,
Paul

Offline blid  
#9 Posted : 08 December 2016 10:29:32(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
This is what my Daylight looks like now.
P1040029 cropped.jpg
I think there was one more stripe on the pilot to start with. I don’t have any fancy tools and used an old fashioned metal file. In the process I broke one of the marker lights off. As payment for the repair at MTH in Columbia MD, I left one of my slim Marklin turnouts behind. They didn’t have any.

I agree with you when you suspect the MTH H0 development is for 2-rail. I think they now know that there was a lot to learn about 3-rail. I hope they will continue with 3-rail, but I am not sure. They have cancelled some of the engines I had ordered. I can’t understand why they don’t make 3-rail wheels for their freight cars. Their 2-rail wheels seems to do OK on Marklin C-track, but I need S88 feedback thru an isolated rail.

blid
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 08 December 2016 13:35:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
I think they now know that there was a lot to learn about 3-rail. I hope they will continue with 3-rail, but I am not sure. They have cancelled some of the engines I had ordered. I can’t understand why they don’t make 3-rail wheels for their freight cars. Their 2-rail wheels seems to do OK on Marklin C-track, but I need S88 feedback thru an isolated rail.

blid


If the 2 rail wheels work OK then use some conductive silver paint to make a connection between the wheels to work your s88 units. Just painting a stripe along the axle and up the inside of each wheel to a point where it makes electrical contact with the metal portion should be enough. two railers do a similar thing to draw some power for sensing occupied tracks, so an MRR store may have what you need.



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