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Offline xxup  
#1 Posted : 19 November 2016 22:45:39(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
There's not much to get excited about in this update:

- New locomotive icons
- New function key symbols "Heavy Load" and "Coast Mode"
- Added support for new decoder profiles
- Update Decoder profile for Firmware 4.14.9233
- Speedstep mode visible for L.Net throttles
- Behaviour for RailComPlus address assignment is now adjustable in the setup menu.


Bugfixes:
- L.Net F9-F12 should now work on all throttles
- Accessory decoders that are using the L.Net should no longer influence the defined switching time

Sort of adds fuel to the rumour of eCOS 3. RollEyes
Adrian
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 19 November 2016 23:06:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Thanks.

Maybe I'll install that update on my Central Station.

There also is an update 4.5.0 for the ESU LokProgrammer.
Looks as if there were some bigger updates with decoder firmware and LokProgrammer - and a small ECoS update to reflect the new decoder firmware with some bug fixes.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Roland  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2016 05:01:50(UTC)
Roland

Canada   
Joined: 09/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Sort of adds fuel to the rumour of eCOS 3. RollEyes


I assume based on the smiley that you're being scarcastic, right? I'm debating purchasing an eCOS 2 but if the eCOS 3 is just around the corner, I would rather wait. If ESU is still releasing updates for the eCOS 2 it would seem like an eCOS 3 is not close to being released.
My Layout Build | Märklin CS3+ | K-track | Merkur | Viessmann | LDT | iTrain | Modeling DB + SBB
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 20 November 2016 08:19:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
We don't know whether ESU have an ECoS 3 in their queue.
The current ECoS II runs fast and fluent, and need for a faster processor is not urgent.
Availability of components is another aspect that could lead to an ECoS 3.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 20 November 2016 08:45:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
ESU will present an new Ecos 3.
But not sure in year 2017.
Because ESU do have problems by delivery models...seems they have trouble with the models which are late too.
ESU latest update seems an giant step up for more advance digital station.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2016 10:06:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
There's not much to get excited about in this update:


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
ESU latest update seems an giant step up for more advance digital station.


Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused

So who is right??

My money is on xxup since Goofy doesn't own an Ecos (or any other digital controller worth having for that matter!).
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 20 November 2016 10:12:21(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
We don't know whether ESU have an ECoS 3 in their queue.


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
ESU will present an new Ecos 3.
But not sure in year 2017.


Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused

Oh dear!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 20 November 2016 10:40:09(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Roland Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Sort of adds fuel to the rumour of eCOS 3. RollEyes


I assume based on the smiley that you're being scarcastic, right? I'm debating purchasing an eCOS 2 but if the eCOS 3 is just around the corner, I would rather wait. If ESU is still releasing updates for the eCOS 2 it would seem like an eCOS 3 is not close to being released.


If your timing for purchase suits, then I would certainly wait until after the Nurnberg Toy Fair at the beginning of February, where most manufacturers announce their new items for the year. If there is an ECoS 3 coming that is when it is likely to be announced, otherwise it is likely to be a full year or more away.
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 20 November 2016 11:02:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
updated my Lopi V 4.0 yesterday, just updated Lokprogrammer V 4.5 and updated Lopi V4.0 again.
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Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 20 November 2016 11:05:43(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I think at this stage, Goofy is the only one taking a giant step forward and I'm trying to hold on the rails

John
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Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 20 November 2016 11:19:50(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post


Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused

My money is on xxup since Goofy doesn't own an Ecos (or any other digital controller worth having for that matter!).


Here we go again with the FRIVOLOUS comment by of David!
You know ESU will do anyway present new digital station and it has to do about technology advance?
This to possible make better digital station?
Ecos 50200 are too old now and it´s time to make an big step up by present new station.
Just like Märklin CS3?
Yes you are confused by not understand.
Just wait until ESU present new digital station. Flapper

My comments are more to do with the rubbish you spew on to this forum and statements that you make that clearly contradict the comments of other folks when you present no evidence to back yourself up. Yes, ESU will eventually bring out another command station, the same as that Mankind will eventually fly to the stars and beyond. However there is no clear timetable or announcement from ESU on this so any pronouncements are just speculation and rubbish. Better to keep quiet until ESU actually say something. /BDNZ

Edited by moderator 20 November 2016 21:11:21(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 20 November 2016 12:02:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
One small step for ESU (as we can tell from the version number), a giant leap for mankind (or at least one member of mankind).
Size exists in the eye of the beholder.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Roland  
#13 Posted : 20 November 2016 14:59:57(UTC)
Roland

Canada   
Joined: 09/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
ESU will present an new Ecos 3.
But not sure in year 2017.


Do you have a source or is this just your opinion? I mean.. of course they will eventually release an eCOS 3, but it could be years away.
My Layout Build | Märklin CS3+ | K-track | Merkur | Viessmann | LDT | iTrain | Modeling DB + SBB
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 20 November 2016 21:10:29(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
No he doesn't - see my Moderators comments above.
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Offline db ice3  
#15 Posted : 21 November 2016 18:35:53(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
as a very occasional winter time reader of this very helpful forum - i couldnt stop laughing at this particular topic esp towards the end ... all over a trainset speed controller ...

omg - this has made my day! BigGrin Flapper BigGrin Flapper BigGrin
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Offline DasBert33  
#16 Posted : 21 November 2016 20:17:41(UTC)
DasBert33

Belgium   
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,245
A dealer confirmed to me too ESU that is working on an ecos3. But it would not arrive soon, it would come before the end of 2018 I'm told. That same dealer also said that ESU was probably screwed on the 3rail market, due to recent developments such as the CS3. He claims most new stuff on CS3 is patented or protected so ESU can not just make a cheaper copy. And on top of that, Marklins central stations are becoming cheaper than ESU ecos2 nowadays (if you count in the serious discount you can get on M stuff and the fixed price you get on ESU materials). Because of this he thinks ESU will now focus more on the 2R market and on device compatibility (loconet, handheld devices etc).

This is basically what Goofy said before, so in this case I think he is correct.

Bert
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Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 22 November 2016 08:00:52(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
A dealer confirmed to me too ESU that is working on an ecos3. But it would not arrive soon, it would come before the end of 2018 I'm told. That same dealer also said that ESU was probably screwed on the 3rail market, due to recent developments such as the CS3. He claims most new stuff on CS3 is patented or protected so ESU can not just make a cheaper copy. And on top of that, Marklins central stations are becoming cheaper than ESU ecos2 nowadays (if you count in the serious discount you can get on M stuff and the fixed price you get on ESU materials). Because of this he thinks ESU will now focus more on the 2R market and on device compatibility (loconet, handheld devices etc).

This is basically what Goofy said before, so in this case I think he is correct.

Bert


its a good example of your explanation, however ESU will not reveal and not even to me what they are going to do in the future or for that fact, what's in the pipeline unless you get someone from the company who leaks this information, (I doubt this).

I can suggest ot anytime ESU will release a new ECoS but again with no fact attached to it, when you look at it logical, who in the world would suggest, 1 or 2 years ahead a new Command station is in the making, the sales would drop drastically, confusion would be ripe and all these rumours like the stock market would put everything into a spin.
to call it an improvement to have 31 Aux functions is beyond my understanding and for some unknown reason the digital systems are not going to get easier to operate but are more difficult to handle. (for some of us).
If the changes would be to drastically whereas you can't use the decoders anymore, I wouldn't change it to any new command station and to be honest I can't see how they can improve it without looking hard at the cost and would it really benefit you. I don't know who they are linking the improvements to with 31 Aux functions, who is asking for this ? and what benefits will it serve, may be for the person who has 1 digital loco or 2 but not if you have a considerable collection.

and who is really benefiting from it: the manufacturer, more plastic parts on locos (cheaper) and the decoders selling it by the 1000 will also be cheaper.

ESU had a ride along the 3 rail system and benefited from it tremendously including myself over the years but it was ESU who introduced the multiprotocol decoders and therefore one was able to use them on Märklin locos with choices we haven't had before.

Who knows what strategies each company has for the future, ESU introduced locos and now carriages, so what will be next ? and it has a reasonable good market in the USA and a much better opportunity with its products than Märklin without all the dealer ships and distributions.

What I would like to see in the near future is companies getting together like ESU, Lenz, maybe Brawa, Chinese manufacturers, engineers with a flare by simplifying loco frames, similar to projects in Dubai whereas the top engineers, architects get together and produce efficient, elegant structures.

with other words, certain jobs are selected by professionals, e.g. decoders, digital technology, design and structure and the end product for the consumer should be better, less bugs, efficient and affordable.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 22 November 2016 08:34:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
The current ECoS firmware (for ECoS 1 and 2 and CS1R) supports 29 functions per loco address. Wouldn't be a big deal to bring this to 32 functions per address in the UI.

Uhlenbrock Intellibox supports 9999 or 16383 functions per address. I can live with a limitation of 29 functions.

I don't know whether the ECoS supports more than 16 functions with mfx/M4.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#19 Posted : 22 November 2016 10:18:22(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
A dealer confirmed to me too ESU that is working on an ecos3.


And therein is the problem - it's a dealer speculating, not an official announcement from ESU. The dealer might be right but he might also be very wrong.

Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
He claims most new stuff on CS3 is patented or protected so ESU can not just make a cheaper copy.


To be honest, I don't think there would be anything to gain for ESU in trying to replicate mfx+. IMHO it's a bit gimmicky, nice to play with once or twice, but it doesn't really add any important functionality in train control.

Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
Because of this he thinks ESU will now focus more on the 2R market and on device compatibility (loconet, handheld devices etc).


Built-in Loconet functionality would be welcome, with the ability to act as either Master or Slave to another device. The current L.Net adapter can only work as a Master, which means I can't use my Ecos as a slave to the Intellibox/KM-1 System 7 used on our G1 layout.
Offline river6109  
#20 Posted : 22 November 2016 13:51:29(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
pure speculation: What I found with ESU in the past, there was a willingness on their side to include Märklin products into their digital components and therefore I think it may not be in their interest to leave this all behind and start afresh with a new system which would not support Märklin products not including the CS3.

I must have been to long on holidays, I didn't know ESU decoders supported 29 functions. my understanding was 26 functions.

I also believe a company which keeps its product for longer and establishes itself in the market place with reliable components will last longer than companies who change their protocol or digital systems to often unless you've got money to burn.
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Offline DasBert33  
#21 Posted : 22 November 2016 19:03:14(UTC)
DasBert33

Belgium   
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,245
BTW I think the info comes from IMA Cologne, either from ESU directly or from the Belgian importer. I don't think it's speculation, but on the other hand, it would be more strange if ESU doesnt come with something new within 2 years, so I understand your sceptisism.

Bert
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Offline river6109  
#22 Posted : 23 November 2016 04:38:00(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
BTW I think the info comes from IMA Cologne, either from ESU directly or from the Belgian importer. I don't think it's speculation, but on the other hand, it would be more strange if ESU doesnt come with something new within 2 years, so I understand your sceptisism.

Bert
.

if it would have come directly from ESU I would have heard about it, one can go on and speculate whether or not the information is valid or not unless the Belgian importer is asked and an official reply is received by this forum. as far as something new is going to appear in 2 years time you're better of looking in the newspaper under your star sign and you will find the same quotes over and over again: there is something in the pipeline for you and you will not regret it, or when Jupiter and Mars cross each other ESU is considering a new ECoS.

its all wishful thinking LOL but please don't tell the stock exchange future prices,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#23 Posted : 23 November 2016 23:16:10(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
BTW I think the info comes from IMA Cologne, either from ESU directly or from the Belgian importer. I don't think it's speculation, but on the other hand, it would be more strange if ESU doesnt come with something new within 2 years, so I understand your sceptisism.

Bert
.

if it would have come directly from ESU I would have heard about it, one can go on and speculate whether or not the information is valid or not unless the Belgian importer is asked and an official reply is received by this forum. as far as something new is going to appear in 2 years time you're better of looking in the newspaper under your star sign and you will find the same quotes over and over again: there is something in the pipeline for you and you will not regret it, or when Jupiter and Mars cross each other ESU is considering a new ECoS.

its all wishful thinking LOL but please don't tell the stock exchange future prices,

John


You might have heard about it, and you might not. Even if you are an official dealer you probably would not hear about it in any official capacity until around 6 months before press release.

In my experience you learn an awful lot of titbits by talking to reps at places like the IMA that is never put down on paper anywhere or released 'unofficially' to dealers until the full official news release comes out. I learnt that the CS1 would have 16 functions by talking to a Marklin rep I knew long before it was available as information to dealers.

And it is nor just MRR related info where this happens - how do you think all those supercars are 'sold out' before the new design is announced and the design work started?

Yes dealers get press releases under embargo, but in a lot of cases a significant proportion of th einfo is out there already through 'the old boy network'.

Online David Dewar  
#24 Posted : 27 November 2016 21:34:28(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
I remember when I joined the forum many moons ago ESU kept on cropping up as to which system was better. Also Goofy has never liked Marklin controllers as far as I know and anything else is better.
New products have to come to the market in order to increase sales so ESU will be no different to any other manufacturer.
I buy the Marklin controllers only because I also buy their locos and track so it is a kind of loyalty purchase. Everybody buys what they like best and it is always good to have competition and therefore ESU should produce something new which keeps Marklin and others improving their products which is in all our interests.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline river6109  
#25 Posted : 28 November 2016 02:01:03(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I remember when I joined the forum many moons ago ESU kept on cropping up as to which system was better. Also Goofy has never liked Marklin controllers as far as I know and anything else is better.
New products have to come to the market in order to increase sales so ESU will be no different to any other manufacturer.
I buy the Marklin controllers only because I also buy their locos and track so it is a kind of loyalty purchase. Everybody buys what they like best and it is always good to have competition and therefore ESU should produce something new which keeps Marklin and others improving their products which is in all our interests.



I don't know how you feel about it by Märklin bringing new Central stations out it would be a concern to me and my budget, going with time or new things these days crops up more frequently than in the past and to me it sounds more like uncertainty than improving products, there could be some truth about it Märklin's digital system it may want to get away from ESU and again be a sole identity,

I'm also like Goofy don't trust Märklin that much since they've changed their digital system but its everybody's choice and I wouldn't call it a better or worse system it just didn't appeal to me as I had reservations about the old and the new system how Märklin handled the amalgamation of the 2 and it was also a choice factor, it had more to do with decoders than anything else, Märklin didn't give me choice decoders or sound decoders at the time, although it was costly and it took me time every time a new version of ESU decoders came out (plug in ) and at a later date ESU produced 21 adapter plates. I've bought Märklin conversion sets for over A$ 200.00 a pop and you multiply this by over 200 locos, as most of my collection were analog, this amounts to, up and over A$ 40.000.00 and I wasn't prepared to spend this amount of money,

each individual case should be looked on it at its own merits and therefore labeling one or the other as superior or more advanced , I would call it a personal observation or specific preferences.

I'm most probably the only one on the forum who has or had made so many changes (improved versions) and I wonder whether or not I've benefited from it financially.

Zimo in those days were in its infancy and charged for any updates and they had to many bugs in their systems, also they didn't provide a lokprogrammer which for me was essential, it all sounded complicated and suppose Märklin produced locos without fuss or choices of your own

my other major concern was the guarantee Märklin offered, unless you send the whole loco back they will not just repair the decoder itself and what I've read in this forum, sometimes locos had been returned more than once.

it costs me a simple airmail postage one way to send back a damaged/faulty sound decoder to ESU (3 year guarantee) and the type of conversions I do sometimes I have ruined decoders (including sound) this alone saved me 1000's of dollars I also have received ruined decoders from clients and all they had been charged was the postage.

the only change I've noticed these days, days are getting shorter and my work load is getting longer, by the time I have breakfast and do all the other things one does in the morning, its lunchtime and than it gets to hot to be outside or in the garage and one has to wait until the late afternoon to continue to do any work.

it was great to have 2 weeks away from trains but than it didn't last long, bought a Roco loco in Hong Kong and this one is already on my workbench to be converted with a sound decoder and this brings me back to Märklin: choice of locos from different countries other than Germany, e.g. SBB or ÖBB, I think Switzerland came off better than Austria and than I've discovered Roco who also produced 3 rail models, most probably right from the beginning and some of their early models had transparent housings when turning on the headlights and my first purchases (back in the eighties) had been a Roco Swiss Crocodile and a DB BR 420, 3 electric unit set, after visiting Austria..

Roco produced the following Austrian models: Rh 1110, Rh 1042, Rh 1189, Rh 4010, Rh 1044, Rh 1046, Rh 2043, Rh 1245, Rh 1670, Rh 2045 and many others which Märklin had never produced and here are the following Swiss models made by Roco: C5/6 Elephant) made recently by Marklin, BLS Ae 8/8, Ae 8/14 with Ae 6/6 front, Ae 6/4, Ae 4/7, Roco never made a Red Arrow, BLS Ae 4/4,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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