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Offline xxup  
#1 Posted : 30 October 2016 04:28:20(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
So now that I have 42 ore wagons, I was thinking about shunting operations at the Kiruna Mine and the port in the 1970s. At some point locomotives are separated from trains for servicing and unless there are loops at both ends of the line one expects that the loco would need to change direction on the return journey.

Has anyone from here worked in the Kiruna mine in the '70s. I am hoping that the Ue plays a role here.
Adrian
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Offline jvuye  
#2 Posted : 30 October 2016 18:13:18(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
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Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
So now that I have 42 ore wagons, I was thinking about shunting operations at the Kiruna Mine and the port in the 1970s. At some point locomotives are separated from trains for servicing and unless there are loops at both ends of the line one expects that the loco would need to change direction on the return journey.

Has anyone from here worked in the Kiruna mine in the '70s. I am hoping that the Ue plays a role here.


AFAIK, electric loks used on the Kiruna line had two cabs: forward and rear. No need to turn them ! Wink
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Western Pacific  
#3 Posted : 06 November 2016 09:33:21(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
So now that I have 42 ore wagons, I was thinking about shunting operations at the Kiruna Mine and the port in the 1970s. At some point locomotives are separated from trains for servicing and unless there are loops at both ends of the line one expects that the loco would need to change direction on the return journey.

Has anyone from here worked in the Kiruna mine in the '70s. I am hoping that the Ue plays a role here.


AFAIK, electric loks used on the Kiruna line had two cabs: forward and rear. No need to turn them ! Wink


Jacques, you are so right. The engines used between Kiruna and Narvik (Norway) in the 1970-ies was the SJ Dm3 (or more correct Dm+Dm3+Dm, since only the middle section is officially a Dm3) and the NSB El 12 and three of them as a multiple unit and thereby achieving the same power as the Dm3. The Dm3 is a model made by Märklin 37753.

However the NSB El 12 from Märklin 37754 shows how it was initially used, but when SJ hade their Dm3 middle section delivered NSB never ordered them. Instead NSB had the El 12 engines retrofitted with buffers and couplers and ran three of them together as can be seen from this photo (from Wikipedia):

NSB El 12

This could be compared to the SJ Dm3 in this photo also shot in Narvik, Norway, (from railroadpictures.info):

SJ Dm3

The SJ Dm (Märklin 37756) was used in Sweden between Kiruna and Luleå, a line with much less gradients compared to going over the watershed between the Baltic and the Atlantic also being the border between Sweden and Norway. So to summarize in the 1970-ies three-unit engines were used between Kiruna and Narvik.

Living over 1000 km from Kiruna and having been there only a few times, I have very little insight into what shunter engines were used even if my first visit was back in 1972 and I went by train. However, I have read about the T46 which was delivered in the early 1970-ies for shunting in Kiruna. It was delivered having one center cab but has in more recent years been totally revised with two cabs, new engines, etc. as can be seen from photos at this Swedish language Internet-site: Lokguide T46.

Edited by user 06 November 2016 13:13:10(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

Offline xxup  
#4 Posted : 06 November 2016 09:48:26(UTC)
xxup

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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Awesome information Per. Thank you. Unfortunately, I can't see Marklin doing a T46 any time soon.. Sad
Adrian
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Offline Western Pacific  
#5 Posted : 06 November 2016 14:12:25(UTC)
Western Pacific

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Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Awesome information Per. Thank you. Unfortunately, I can't see Marklin doing a T46 any time soon.. Sad


I agree. In particular since only 4 were built having the same diesel engine as SJ T44 (Märklin 37940 - 43) giving them some commonality to a much larger engine series at SJ.

The T46, like for instance NSB Di3 (Märklin's model 39671) was build by Nohab and the length of T46 and Di3 were identical at 18,300 mm. Both have wheel arrangement Co'Co' compared to DSB My (Märklin 39670 and 39674) which has (A1A)'(A1A)'. Whether this would mean that a T46 could be built using the motor, decoder and trucks of a 39671 I don't know. From photos the trucks look similar but not identical. I don't know if the diesel engine sounds from the decoders of for instance 39671 or 37943 are the same or if the sound decoder of the T44 would be more suitable for a T46.

An alternative that could be contemplated would be to use a T44 for shunting and then in the orange/dark blue livery would be best suited for the 1970-ies. This would then be the Märklin 37940, sold out at Märklin unfortunately, but perhaps would Märklin re-release a model based on the 37943 but in this livery and thus with sound from factory.


It could be noted that the iron ore traffic was originally operated by SJ and NSB but in 1993 an agreement was reached that LKAB, the mining company, would take over responsibility for the transports. This happened in 1996 and in 2001 the company introduced a modern double electric engine - the Iore class - the first series delivered from the early 2000s. In total 34 have been delivered. Roco has made a model of this engine also for operation on Märklin layouts.

The MTAS T44, Märklin 37942, is a model of an engine used for shunting in Narvik by LKAB.

The Dm3s have been retired from active service but as far as I recall two are kept at museums, one in Luleå and one in Gävle.

Edited by user 06 November 2016 17:48:12(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

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Offline xxup  
#6 Posted : 06 November 2016 21:45:56(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Yes - I think that the 37940 looks to be the best option for me.. It's not that I need historical accuracy, but this option does not look too odd to me. Thanks again for your generous contribution.
Adrian
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Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 07 November 2016 01:19:29(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Adrian, you got some vital information there, its always good to read these facts from far away, this is why this forum is great with informations from all over the world.

42 ore wagons (wow) I've got 4 and never increased it. my 2 SJ iron ore locos are from Roco, unfortunately the blue coloured Roco model one part was stolen and the thief made attempts to steal the DM3 as well (many years ago). one can buy 4 Roco iron ore cars for Euro 100.00 and you can see why I haven't bought any more 42 : 4 = 10 x 100 Euro = 1000.00 just for ore cars and I don't think there as many for sale on ebay. originally I had 2 DM3's but sold one.

here is a photo of LKAB loco, the Roco model is unbelievable, 2 motors, incredible weight and power to 12 axles

LKAB iron ore loco.jpg

here is a video after it was stolen: looks like I never took a video before it was stolen




and another one from the DM3 with a rubber tyre hanging off but as you can see no iron ore wagons



Would like to see some pictures or video of your complete iron ore train set up.



John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Jabez  
#8 Posted : 18 November 2016 22:38:10(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I was thinking about shunting operations at the Kiruna Mine and the port in the 1970s.

I have visited the Kiruna mine many times, but I was more interested in the mining and ore processing activities than the railroad.
I did write an article for Engineering & Mining Journal on the new LKAB terminal and ore handling facilities at Lulea, their secondary port on the Gulf of Bothnia. It's not Narvik and not in your time frame, '96 rather than the 70's. As I recall it did feature an enormous return loop. It may be of interest to you.
I found a net reference here http://connection.ebscoh...nal-goes-operation-lulea
If you want it and can't get hold of it via that route, I guess I can dig out an old volume and photocopy it for you. Just PM me your mailing address.
Jabez

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 19 November 2016 00:47:41(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Wow!.. Thank you for that information. Miss 17 is going to QUT next year, so I will ask (order Blushing ) her to get a copy for me from that library. I think that they start the year around the end of February. I am looking forward to a good read of it.

On another note, I am hoping that Marklin eventually do a model of the later mine locomotives.
Adrian
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Offline Jabez  
#10 Posted : 20 November 2016 03:05:34(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
I guess the various Pilbara iron ore mine railways down your way are among the highest capacity and heaviest duty ore railroads in the world. Different scenery from the LKAB Arctic lines, and I doubt if Maerklin or anyone else makes models of their locos or rolling stock.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline xxup  
#11 Posted : 20 November 2016 03:38:33(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
I prefer the Kiruna stuff anyway - Australian mine roll stock is pretty boring.. Kiruna is a beautiful place in winter. Of course the town as moved since we were last there at the end of 2012..
Adrian
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