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Offline michelvr  
#1 Posted : 22 October 2016 15:33:42(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Good morning and welcome to my rendition of a RANT!

Here we have MOROP (the European federation of national model railway associations) or is it (MOROP European Union of Model Railroad and Railroad Friends. It is a European organisation which publishes NEM-standards. NEM-standards are used by model railway industry and hobbyists in Europe.

I for one love these NEM stardards. No more incompatibility with using other model train manufactures together. Today we have it good, real good! It wasn't that long ago that if you bought a train set from manufacturer A and tried to use it with manufacturer B you were as we Canadians would say, 'Up the creek without a paddle!" In other words this would be hopeless, hence the phrase, (Up the creek without a paddle)

NOW what's with the lack of working prototypical NEM coupliers?

Come one, if I can facetime my daughter in Darwin, Australia from Barrie, Ontario which by the way would take 3 weeks if you sent a letter, Why to hell can't I connect a Marklin locomotive to a Fleischmann freight car without them always coming apart!!!!!!

Can someone answer this?

You know it's always the weakest link that fails, could this be why the European Union is slowly braking apart!Confused

Sincerely,

Michel
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 22 October 2016 18:45:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

Modern locos have NEM coupler pockets. Install some couplers that are not oversized and you're done (i.e. do not use Märklin close couplers).

Avoid NEM couplers - they will lead to problems with coaches that have guiding mechanisms.


NEM is a good idea. But it seems a certain world market leader thinks that NEM should document the company standards of that market leader. That market leader does not show much effort to follow NEM standards.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 22 October 2016 18:47:51(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Great thing about standards: -

1. There are so many to choose from ...

2. There are so many ways to interpret the one you choose ...

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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 22 October 2016 18:56:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
3. Some standards are only "recommended" and not "required".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Brakeman  
#5 Posted : 22 October 2016 19:06:18(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 298
Location: Southern California
Good point Michel,
and you kind of answered to your own question.

FaceTime is a Apple solution, works inside of one defined ecosystem. Others use Skype or other competing systems which are based on industry standards.
No FaceTime on Windows phone.

Same with Marklin, it's a closed system. Power pickup, axle width, wheel flange size, coupling height and so on.
Still I try to run ROCO cars on my Marklin layout and struggle with guided couplings. I gave up with RP25 wheelsets on American rolling stock.

Thanks,
Juha

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Offline Hackcell  
#6 Posted : 23 October 2016 03:07:45(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: Brakeman Go to Quoted Post
Good point Michel,
and you kind of answered to your own question.

FaceTime is a Apple solution, works inside of one defined ecosystem. Others use Skype or other competing systems which are based on industry standards.
No FaceTime on Windows phone.

Same with Marklin, it's a closed system. Power pickup, axle width, wheel flange size, coupling height and so on.
Still I try to run ROCO cars on my Marklin layout and struggle with guided couplings. I gave up with RP25 wheelsets on American rolling stock.

Thanks,
Juha



I have some rp-25 wheeled freight cars running on C track. Just had to use metal wheels and slightly change the distance between flanges ;-)
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline michelvr  
#7 Posted : 23 October 2016 14:40:20(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Good morning,

Thank you for the interesting feedback but I was hoping someone would lead me to this unknown website that sold prototypical HO scale couplers. I guess that is not to beCrying. You know when I had my North American collection the greatest asset was the conversion to Kadee couplers............. Kadee couplers?

Maybe worth investigating?

Presently the only modification required is the removal of the trip pin to make the Kadee couplers work.

Are any members using Kadee couplers on their Marklin products?

Déjà voo seems to be settling in...........

Regards,

Michel
Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 23 October 2016 18:55:09(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
You can buy standard hook and loop couplers, Fleischmann classics, Roco, Maerklin, Fleischmann, Liliput and other close couplers, Kadee couplers with NEM clips. These couplers can be inserted into any coach/car with NEM socket. For older coaches/cars without NEM socket, you can still in some cases find modified coupler heads.
If you cannot convert a particular coach/car, you can use the car next to it as a transition, with a normal coupler on one side and the coupler needed for your car on the other.
I am using the Maerklin close coupler or the Roco Universal coupler for most cars, the Fleischmann Profi Close Coupling for push-pull consists. The determination of Maerklin 7203 or Roco Universal is determined by the positioning. The Roco UC has about 1mm extra length in the shaft, which comes in handy as some manufacturer's products may have shafts that are often about 1mm shorter than the norm. My Liliput, ACME, Heris, RailTop and some LSM models are much happier with the Roco UC.
The Maerklin CC and Roco UC are backwards compatible with the classic hook and loop, so you can insert an old car/coach into a consist with minimal problem.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Brakeman  
#9 Posted : 23 October 2016 22:16:56(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 298
Location: Southern California
Thanks Michel,

If you're looking for prototypical HO couplers for European rolling stock you need to go for "screw link" or "buffers and chain" type of coupling. The knuckle couplers which Kadee is mimicking are used in special cases and in Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_coupling

There are some manufactures for fine scale H0 items. I can't even imagine the screw link coupling working in our environment with tight radius curves and cars running buffer to buffer.
http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Smiths_couplings_for__OO_.html

The close coupling mechanisms are designed for rigid couplings, meaning the two couplings are not supposed to pivot from the contact point. Kadee knuckle couplings pivot allowing the drawbars to turn sideways in the guiding track. Under load, the cars are further apart from each other than when stationary.
https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/m24803-ulf999-US-modular-layout#post24803

I think the couplings offered by big brands today are ugly and clumsy. The market is different than in US, where Kadee style couplers look good and work well in domestic brand stock.

Regards,
Juha
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Offline mike c  
#10 Posted : 24 October 2016 23:05:41(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I think that the biggest problem with NEM couplings is that they all agreed on the standardization of the socket in function and design, but from that point on, they each assumed that their coupling would become the new standard. As far as the Maerklin 7203, Roco's 40397 Universal Coupler and some other designs, reverse compatibility with the classic Maerklin hook and loop design limited the possibilities in design. Roco's Close Coupler, Fleischmann's Profi Coupling and similar couplers by Liliput, Electrotren and others can each be used only with similarly equipped rolling stock.

Kadee's couplers were an improvement over what was previously available in the States, but I do not find those couplers any better than any of the European designs and I presume that preference is determined by what you are familiar with.

North American railways have long used knuckle couplers, which the Kadee design emulates. The European system relies on a simple hook and loop design. Reproducing a prototypical coupler has been done on brass, but the dimensions are very small for reduced scale. Compared to what was offered by Fleischmann, Hornby, Triang, etc in the 1950s, the Maerklin hook and loop was practical and became the European norm rather quickly. Many other brands offered conversion kits so that their products could be fitted with the Maerklin type couplers, partially because they wanted to also sell their models to Maerklin modellers.

As I stated above, the problem with NEM standards and companies deviating slightly is nothing new. The same thing happened in real life, where many of the European railways agreed on a standard coach design (the Eurofima coach) in the 1970s, but within a few years, the DB, SNCF, FS, SNCB, OBB and SBB had all introduced new designs for their own coaches rather than pursuing the common development that Eurofima was supposed to inaugurate.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#11 Posted : 25 October 2016 06:25:33(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
...and a prototypical coupling would sit between the buffers and not underneath them. Putting a prototypical coupling in a nem shaft would still look weird. I use a mix of Märklin couplings and the Roco Universal coupling. No problems there.
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 25 October 2016 08:11:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I think that the biggest problem with NEM couplings is that they all agreed on the standardization of the socket in function and design, but from that point on, they each assumed that their coupling would become the new standard.
To clarify the nomenclature: NEM couplers are loop and hook couplers.
All those close couplers are no NEM coupler (even though Märklin close couplers are somewhat compatible with some NEM couplers).
Close couplers for NEM pockets are no NEM couplers.

NEM couplers cannot be prototypical.

Roco makes close couplers that look like the automatic couplers used in Europe. So there you have prototypical couplers for European rolling stock. At least for some European rolling stock.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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