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Offline Jabez  
#1 Posted : 10 October 2016 00:47:33(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Why were older-era German and some other Continental freight and even passenger cars provided with a brakeman's shack or shelter while I have never seen this feature on British rolling stock?
Was it something to do with British trains always having a guard's or brake van at the end of the train which did not seem to be the practice on the Continent?
Just curious.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 10 October 2016 08:36:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
In era I and AFAIK even into era II these cabs where manned during the ride. The train driver whistled and all brake men engaged the brakes to stop the train.

Pneumatic brakes controlled by the train driver made those brake men redundant.

I don't know how braking was done on British trains.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 10 October 2016 23:52:04(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
In era I and AFAIK even into era II these cabs where manned during the ride. The train driver whistled and all brake men engaged the brakes to stop the train.

Pneumatic brakes controlled by the train driver made those brake men redundant.

I don't know how braking was done on British trains.


British operating procedure was quite different. A train would stop at the top of a slope and the guard would walk along the train putting brakes on on each wagon, then the loco would pull the train down the grade. Then stop at the bottom so the guard could take the brakes off, and on they would go. Much more time consuming.

As an aside to this, there was a series in the UK on the history of British railways recently. They went through this exact procedure to go down a quite steep grade with a handful of wagons, but were so busy doing piece to camera that they forgot to take the brakes off at the bottom. Got to the end of the branch line, ran the loco around, probably spent quite some time (ever been involved in filming anything? It takes ages with all the set up etc to get a short usable take) In due course they start back and get to the slope, and the loco can't pull the wagons up, even though the loco is releasing sand onto the wheels. Eventually they realize what the problem is, release the brakes and off they go without a problem. I wondered how hot the brakes and wheels had got with the running around with the brakes on when they shouldn't have been.

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Offline nitramretep  
#4 Posted : 11 October 2016 14:35:31(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
I was really surprised to read that the brakeman in UK trains had to run to each car adjusting brakes. Not that I am any expert, I remember most early freight cars only having a manual push down lever brake. Not a threaded gear assembly that would be adjustable and hold an adjustment. I might be wrong and if I am I apologize. I thought the break van had the main breaking assembly to hold trains in a semi taught position to avoid sudden inertial snaps or control downhill movement or momentum. Again I would like to know if this incorrect and perhaps kiwiAlan can enlighten me.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 11 October 2016 15:02:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: nitramretep Go to Quoted Post
I was really surprised to read that the brakeman in UK trains had to run to each car adjusting brakes. Not that I am any expert, I remember most early freight cars only having a manual push down lever brake. Not a threaded gear assembly that would be adjustable and hold an adjustment. I might be wrong and if I am I apologize. I thought the break van had the main breaking assembly to hold trains in a semi taught position to avoid sudden inertial snaps or control downhill movement or momentum. Again I would like to know if this incorrect and perhaps kiwiAlan can enlighten me.


Each wagon had a push down lever that had a ratchet arrangement, so the amount of braking it exerted was variable. The end of the lever was arranged as a step so the guard could jump on it to apply a suitable amount of pressure. I can't remember how it is released - I can see i'll have to go down the local museum and take some photos of brake mechanisms.

The brakevan also had a wheel to put its brakes on, and my assumption is that this was enough to hold a train or provide some tail end braking to keep the chain links taught when stopping.
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Offline nitramretep  
#6 Posted : 11 October 2016 20:58:22(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
I learn something new every day! Thanks Alan for the information.I hope you did not take offence to my comment(s).
Offline Webmaster  
#7 Posted : 11 October 2016 21:05:16(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I just love learning new things about different railways... Thanks! Smile
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline SteamNut  
#8 Posted : 12 October 2016 00:11:24(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
I believe they were also used for the conductor? on freight trains as more then 3-5 cars needed a conductor. Provisions were made on some steam loks on the tender (the little cabin on the tender) for them. Fred
Offline Jabez  
#9 Posted : 12 October 2016 00:20:43(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

Each wagon had a push down lever that had a ratchet arrangement, so the amount of braking it exerted was variable. The end of the lever was arranged as a step so the guard could jump on it to apply a suitable amount of pressure. I can't remember how it is released - I can see i'll have to go down the local museum and take some photos of brake mechanisms.

I can recall seeing shunters in UK using a long wooden pole to force down that lever and presumably release the wagon brake to free the vehicle for movement.
I was amazed to learn that it was normal to man all those brakeman shelters on some early-era Continental trains. That must have meant a very large train crew on a long train compared to only three, I assume, on a British goods train of the period.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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