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Offline Jabez  
#1 Posted : 12 September 2016 23:23:57(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Anyone have an opinion on the effectiveness of the 46049
Track Cleaning Car, or alternatively the 15500, or 24050
Track Cleaning Cars?
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline Minok  
#2 Posted : 13 September 2016 00:06:51(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,222
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
And how do they compare to what the LUX solutions provide ( http://www.lux-modellbau.de/ ) which also have dust vacuums and center contact cleaners.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline Jabez  
#3 Posted : 13 September 2016 00:44:56(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
And how do they compare to what the LUX solutions provide ( http://www.lux-modellbau.de/ ) which also have dust vacuums and center contact cleaners.


Thank you for expanding the terms of the question. Let's say how do you rate anyone's cleaner cars.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline waltklatt  
#4 Posted : 13 September 2016 00:51:35(UTC)
waltklatt

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 138
Used to have a 24050 brown car, but was not heavy enough.
Pads kept snagging on the switchovers.
But solved by putting extra weight inside and trimmong the pad ends a bit more angled.
Then I transferred the cleaning pads to another car #4107.
Works well now.
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Offline Harryv40  
#5 Posted : 13 September 2016 09:10:57(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 218
Location: Wilshire
Hi I have purchased a Roco cleaning car (£22.50) from Scograil in Ipswich.
It was recommended to me, the car is very heavy. The only problem is it tends to derail on one set of points at speed, but that could be a pad adjustment job.
I was worried about the track studs but it does not touch them on c track.

The pad is a fairly hard rubber, like the Roco track rubber, but appears to get the job done. Before anyone says about scratching the rails, has anyone experienced this problem, not a friend of someone else.

Harry
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 13 September 2016 09:25:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have the Marklin 46042 which is very similar to the 46049. To be honest I find it quite useless, The pads get dirty after one lap and are time consuming to replace. It was also not at all effective in sidings where you have to drive it in more slowly. I've taken the pads off mine now and just use the wagon in regular service.

I became interested in the Lux-Modellbau wagons and on one of my trips to Luxembourg I asked at one of the model shops about them. I was told that to be effective one needed both the scrubbing wagon and the vaccuum wagon. This called for a total investment of about 500 euro, which I felt was not warranted on my small layout.

I'm still in search of a good track cleaning solution that does not involve manual intervention.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Torstein  
#7 Posted : 13 September 2016 12:24:11(UTC)
Torstein

Norway   
Joined: 27/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 338
Location: Norway
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I have the Marklin 46042 which is very similar to the 46049. To be honest I find it quite useless, The pads get dirty after one lap and are time consuming to replace. It was also not at all effective in sidings where you have to drive it in more slowly. I've taken the pads off mine now and just use the wagon in regular service.



Sorry Ray - but I do not agree with you - 100%. BigGrin

It is nothing wrong with the car but how you use it.

I have 3 pc of this cars and put always one in a freight train. That way it runs regularly on layout. The pads get dirty and they shall otherwise they do not do the job. Dirty/black pads still pick up dirt/oil from the rails, no need to replace or clean them after a few laps on the layout.

My car run several weeks before I look at it, or put on new pads. The rails are pretty clean, they have to, as I have grades on the layout.

Regularly use of the car is the key here. ThumpUp

All the best
TorsteinBigGrin
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Offline utkan  
#8 Posted : 13 September 2016 12:26:08(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,116
Location: Istanbul,
I finished my layout in 2009....and since then I have not used a single track cleaning wagon or something else to clean my tracks...so far I have not had a single problem...the only thing I do is : run as many trains as I can on the rails...ThumpUp ThumpUp
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
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Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 13 September 2016 12:42:20(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Torstein Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I have the Marklin 46042 which is very similar to the 46049. To be honest I find it quite useless, The pads get dirty after one lap and are time consuming to replace. It was also not at all effective in sidings where you have to drive it in more slowly. I've taken the pads off mine now and just use the wagon in regular service.



Sorry Ray - but I do not agree with you - 100%. BigGrin

It is nothing wrong with the car but how you use it.

I have 3 pc of this cars and put always one in a freight train. That way it runs regularly on layout. The pads get dirty and they shall otherwise they do not do the job. Dirty/black pads still pick up dirt/oil from the rails, no need to replace or clean them after a few laps on the layout.

My car run several weeks before I look at it, or put on new pads. The rails are pretty clean, they have to, as I have grades on the layout.

Regularly use of the car is the key here. ThumpUp

All the best
TorsteinBigGrin


Hi Torstein,

I'm glad it works for you. Reading the way you use it I think it would be difficult to do the same on my layout. Much of my trackage is in dead-end sidings or loops which normally have trains parked on them, so to run a train with the track cleaning wagon every day would be tedious as I would have to move all the trains around specially to get the one with the pads into every corner.

I'm looking for a solution which would allow me to clean the tracks well enough so that i can then run my normal trains trouble free for at least a couple of weeks. The wagon I have does not take enough dirt off in one pass for this to work.

Perhaps I'm asking too much?

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 13 September 2016 12:54:31(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: utkan Go to Quoted Post
I finished my layout in 2009....and since then I have not used a single track cleaning wagon or something else to clean my tracks...so far I have not had a single problem...the only thing I do is : run as many trains as I can on the rails...ThumpUp ThumpUp


Yes, analogue on M-tracks seems to be much less affected by dirt problems.

We were discussing this recently and I commented on the fact that generally analogue trains are run much faster than digital trains which helps to keep the tracks clean. Also the interruption of the power to an analogue loco is not as noticeable as the effect of the outage on a digital decoder, which might try to restart from speed step one, or mute the sound for example.

I also believe that M tracks stay cleaner than C tracks, but I don't have any proof of that, or understand why it may be the case.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Torstein  
#11 Posted : 13 September 2016 13:25:21(UTC)
Torstein

Norway   
Joined: 27/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 338
Location: Norway
Hi Ray.

I agree with you - on sidings or dead end track it is not so useful. I use it to clean the mainline and station tracks because there are some places I can not put my hand on. As the K track have a wide flat top on the rails, I think the car have it best use on this type of track.

Otherwise as memhet said above- run trains and keep it clean. RollEyes

Yes maybe... maybe you expect to much from this little car. BigGrin

Have fun

Torstein.
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#12 Posted : 13 September 2016 13:26:20(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
I'm using Noch Reinigungszwerge: http://www.noch.de/de/reinigungszwerge-60157.html
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Offline RayF  
#13 Posted : 13 September 2016 14:19:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
I'm using Noch Reinigungszwerge: http://www.noch.de/de/reinigungszwerge-60157.html


I might give this a try. They look like they are easy to fit, so I could put one on the rear axle of each train to try to get to the end of every siding.

At worst I would not have wasted a lot of money!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline utkan  
#14 Posted : 13 September 2016 14:20:13(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,116
Location: Istanbul,
The problem does not have anything to do with being analog or digital...during the first years, after having finished building the layout, I used to run only a few trains on some particular tracks...you see running ten or more trains in marklinistanbul is pretty difficult...some of our members, who have visited me, know very well...so when the visitors and I wished to run more trains simultaneously, we discovered that some of the tracks had problems...so I started using every track more equally...of course it is quite difficult to use about 200 metres of track equally...I have been using almost every main lane equally and I do not have any problems...so to cut the long story short: the more trains you run on your tracks, the less problems you have....Cool Cool
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#15 Posted : 13 September 2016 14:25:43(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
I'm using Noch Reinigungszwerge: http://www.noch.de/de/reinigungszwerge-60157.html


I might give this a try. They look like they are easy to fit, so I could put one on the rear axle of each train to try to get to the end of every siding.


Yes, that's it! It's really easy to mount them on the axle and normally it is no problem to drive them in both directions, push and pull. They really clean the tracks, maybe not so efficient like a cleaning car. But you can leave them permanently and therefore, the tracks stay clean from dust and dirt.

Offline Drongo  
#16 Posted : 13 September 2016 14:59:42(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
I'd like to throw my 2 cents worth in.

I've used the Lux cleaning cars and that make more noise than they clean - for 500 euro you can buy a really good Dyson. The Nock cleaning pads don't touch the centre studs only the 2 rails. And to just add a little more - the Lux wheel cleaning unit is a s good as tits on a bull.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#17 Posted : 13 September 2016 15:06:36(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
The Nock cleaning pads don't touch the centre studs only the 2 rails.


Yes, that's correct. But normally, the point contacts will not collect dirt, because the surface is very small and is cleaned from the pickup shoe. But the rails become dirty from the traction tires, sometimes from oil, ... It's most important to clean them.

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Offline Thewolf  
#18 Posted : 13 September 2016 16:16:05(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,938
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi guys Cool

I use as Moritz the item Noch and it is placed under the axle of first coach or freight car behind the loco.

And I have as well as I call the train of cleaning with 1 x 46049 M, 1x 46042 M and 2 cleaners cars Lux and a loco serie 55 SNCB, 37674 M

The set will run when the layout will be ended


Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline PMPeter  
#19 Posted : 13 September 2016 16:47:35(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,134
Location: Port Moody, BC
I have both the LUX vacuum car and the rail cleaner car. They are very noisy and perform a so-so job. I do not have the middle puko cleaner wagon and without it these cars do not work that well if your dirt accumulation is on the pukos since both cars need the slider to work perfectly. So in hindsight it may have been better to buy the puko cleaner rather than the rail cleaner. I also find that they do not negotiate some of the Marklin turnouts very well.

Since then I have bought both of the KPF Zeller cleaning cars for outside and puko cleaning. They are very effective but have 2 drawbacks as far as I can see. Firstly they are unidirectional so even the slightest movement backwards causes derailment and resulting short circuit. Secondly, I'm not sure who's flatcar they use but the couplers are not interchangeable so they do not necessarily line up with the loco couplers. Due to these problems, once you have run them around your tracks you need to manually remove them and relocate them to a yard track if you want to get them off of your mainline.

Between the 2 sets I now mainly use the KPF units first (choice of wet or dry cleaning) and then follow up with the LUX cars if I haven't run trains for a period of time. Seems to require the least amount of hand cleaning.

Cheers
Peter

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Offline Thewolf  
#20 Posted : 13 September 2016 17:09:00(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,938
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I have both the LUX vacuum car and the rail cleaner car. They are very noisy and perform a so-so job. I do not have the middle puko cleaner wagon and without it these cars do not work that well if your dirt accumulation is on the pukos since both cars need the slider to work perfectly. So in hindsight it may have been better to buy the puko cleaner rather than the rail cleaner. I also find that they do not negotiate some of the Marklin turnouts very well.

Since then I have bought both of the KPF Zeller cleaning cars for outside and puko cleaning. They are very effective but have 2 drawbacks as far as I can see. Firstly they are unidirectional so even the slightest movement backwards causes derailment and resulting short circuit. Secondly, I'm not sure who's flatcar they use but the couplers are not interchangeable so they do not necessarily line up with the loco couplers. Due to these problems, once you have run them around your tracks you need to manually remove them and relocate them to a yard track if you want to get them off of your mainline.

Between the 2 sets I now mainly use the KPF units first (choice of wet or dry cleaning) and then follow up with the LUX cars if I haven't run trains for a period of time. Seems to require the least amount of hand cleaning.

Cheers
Peter



Hi Peter Cool

The KPF Zeller Rail claeaning seems interesting...Can you tell it to me more, please ?

Thank you for your reply

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline PMPeter  
#21 Posted : 13 September 2016 17:57:14(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,134
Location: Port Moody, BC
Here is the link to the KPF Zeller site. Unfortunately it is in German only.

KPF Site

Cheers
Peter
Offline GlennM  
#22 Posted : 13 September 2016 19:57:08(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,776
Location: Somewhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Here is the link to the KPF Zeller site. Unfortunately it is in German only.

KPF Site

Cheers
Peter


I also have the KPF Zeller cleaning car set, which I think is very good, and which Nigel considers one of the best (if not the best) track cleaning car he has ever used. Here is my post from earlier in the year;

A Great 3 Rail track cleaning system;

Whilst at the show on the KPF Zeller stand there was a novel new 3 rail track cleaning system;

UserPostedImage


Nigel and I were so impressed we have ordered one each and hopefully they will arrive soon and I can show you some more pictures of it in action.

For now you will have to contented with their website page which can be found here

Several people have also posted information about the rolling test stand, the full HO range can be found here


BR
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline nitramretep  
#23 Posted : 13 September 2016 20:54:40(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
The Lux units are impressive but too much for my budget. I use Tipton 12 gauge Shotgun cotton cleaning patches (approximately 3" X 3") I put 2 together and fold in quarter and just wipe the track, sometimes I use Isopropyl Alcohol or Goo Gone. In any event I do this twice a week and the tracks are always exuding the black goo, caused by dissimilar metals and electrical current. How someone can not clean the tracks for years is a miracle to me, power to them! I can get 40' of track clean with two patches if not more.

I should note that the kitchen fumes, next door can sometimes flow around, I just installed a monster ceiling exhaust fan to supplement the over the range unit...that may be root of some dirt on the track.
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Offline Thewolf  
#24 Posted : 13 September 2016 21:48:41(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,938
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi All Cool

I checked for the KPF Zeller cleaning car set, the M and the A.

The coast of shipment Crying more expensively than the cleaning car itself (Ebay Canada)

I am going to send a message to KPF and also visit the Lippe website

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Tom Jessop  
#25 Posted : 13 September 2016 22:21:04(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 794
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


I saw the KPF cleaner at last years Eurospoor & was very impressed . Didn't purchase one as I have a Shine boy which I purchased a few years ago on Wepay which I am quite happy with , not only does it clean track but also Catenary .

Cheers Tom in Oz .
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Offline Minok  
#26 Posted : 14 September 2016 00:23:20(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,222
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Here is the link to the KPF Zeller site. Unfortunately it is in German only.

KPF Site

Cheers
Peter


Very interesting option.

I'll take a crack at translating the german text from the KPF page here (as there is no UBB code for creating a table, just the translation):

Rail Cleaning

Many manufacturers call them rail cleaning cars.
Us too.
But we follow through on what others promise.

Not even the center conductor is cleaned? With us it’s not only cleaned but treated.

For us and for you it’s not just a simple cleaning car. It’s a system similar to a constructor set.

Did you look at the price? There are manufacturers that offer a €200 cleaning car. Cleaning cars that cannot possibly work well do to their physical characteristics. With integrated vacuum power under 1 Watt.

The market for hand-vacuums have some up to 300 Watts and those frequently function only marginally. Home vacuums of 1,000 Watts generate enough suction to achieve proper cleaning potential.

We classify such providers as “blinders”, and we stand by that statement, as we don’t blind. Test our methods of cleaning. We play with Swabian fair cards.

Money back if not satisfied is given with us. You would be the first.

If you buy/sell on eBay, you understand how good your product and customer service needs to be to maintain a 100% positive rating.

We have 100% positive rating.

The renowned magazine, “Modelbahntechnik aktuel” [Model train technology today] has tested our rail cleaning system in H0. You can read their test report HERE

UserPostedImage

You select how and with what you clean your rails based on the condition of the rails. You assemble a cleaning train, which then travels over your routes.

Wet cleaning, dry cleaning, the removal from surface dust rust to conservation. Not everything at once – but via various entities all within one train (consist), which is selected and assembled by you for the deployment need.

UserPostedImage

Not from the rack/peg – you assemble the individual professional cleaning solution.

Even the coating with current conducting oil is possible, so that the surfaces of your rails are protected against corrosion.

And all of this with a sensational result:
We are not manufacturing nonsense, we follow through where others promise.



UserPostedImage


Looking at the attachments for the weighted cars (1 for rails, 1 for center conductor) they have differing shoes to deploy: fleece pad for dry cleaning, SWR (Specific Wear Rate) 1000 pads for removing surface rust, SWR-240 pads for smoothing track joints, wet cleaning.
The cleaning shoes are out of poly-carbonate with an integrated stainless steel weight.

The rail cleaning car is typically the 1st car in the cleaning consist, comes with 40 dry cleaning fleece pads which is well suited for the initial removal of house dust and oil contamination on rail surfaces. The CC-Z conductive oil that can be deployed for treating cleaned rails and shields from rust and dirt accumulation.

Looks interesting. Will love to hear experiences with the system..
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline xxup  
#27 Posted : 14 September 2016 00:37:40(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,275
Location: Australia
The thing to remember about the lux cleaning are is that Lux sell a large variety of implements to use for cleaning - from felt pads down to sandpaper.. I have them all, but only used one or two of them. That said - for the effort involved the Lux does not really clean the track well. It might, however, help to maintain an already clean track..

I don't use a cleaning car any more - in fact, I might sell the lux with all of its implements of track torture. I have been using Track Magic for the past 3 years and it has been great for my layout. I have also tried the Noch cleaning pads, but they are expensive down here and they get dirty very quickly.
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#28 Posted : 14 September 2016 08:12:16(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I have also tried the Noch cleaning pads, but they are expensive down here and they get dirty very quickly.


That's their purpose in life Laugh

The KPF Zeller solution sounds really interesting. I have only doubts with the SRW-M (http://kpf-shop.de/epages/b68d1746-f301-475a-8faf-db6254448190.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/b68d1746-f301-475a-8faf-db6254448190/Products/SRW-M). I fear that the fleece will get stuck on the point contacts of the M tracks.

The price seems to be OK.
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Offline Br502362  
#29 Posted : 14 September 2016 13:17:58(UTC)
Br502362


Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 651
Location: Finland
Hi all,

But why make two different track cleaning cars?

Capture4503.JPG

If I have some spare time today I will take one 4503 car and see if it is possible to fit three
individual cleaning pads to it. Construction looks so simple that it should be easy
to DIY.

Cheers

Åke
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Offline Jabez  
#30 Posted : 15 September 2016 04:23:32(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Thanks for all the input. It already amounts to a pretty comprehensive user review of track cleaning cars.
One thing puzzles me about this very expensive Lux vacuum cleaner.
Couldn't you get equivalent and even better results by just passing a domestic vacuum cleaner with a small suction head over the tracks? OK, the tracks need to be open and accessible, and it is a manual intervention, but it sure seems to be a cheaper and practical alternative for vacuuming.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline PMPeter  
#31 Posted : 15 September 2016 05:28:55(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,134
Location: Port Moody, BC
Yes I also use my small Dyson hand held all the time for tracks that are within easy reach. I mainly bought the LUX set for my tunnel or other hard to reach areas, but I now generally use the KPF units since they really work well for me and then run the vacuum car to pick up any debris kicked off by them.
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Offline Br502362  
#32 Posted : 15 September 2016 09:47:21(UTC)
Br502362


Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 651
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

But why make two different track cleaning cars?

Capture4503.JPG

If I have some spare time today I will take one 4503 car and see if it is possible to fit three
individual cleaning pads to it. Construction looks so simple that it should be easy
to DIY.

Cheers

Åke


Measurements done. It's possible to fit three cleaning pads under a 4503 car!
Drawings for parts are ready and now it's time to make those parts from 4mm thick lexan sheet.

Photos will follow as the work advances...

Cheers

Åke

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Offline Minok  
#33 Posted : 16 September 2016 00:29:44(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,222
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Yes I also use my small Dyson hand held all the time for tracks that are within easy reach. I mainly bought the LUX set for my tunnel or other hard to reach areas, but I now generally use the KPF units since they really work well for me and then run the vacuum car to pick up any debris kicked off by them.


My guess here is its all to do with what you need to vacuum up and also what you do not want to vacuum up.

If the LUX vac is to just pick up light dust and whatever their grinding track-cleaner may generate, its suction may be sufficient. Using a manual light or larger home vac may produce enough vacuum but end up pulling up grass, track bedding, people and whatever else your not careful enough with. If you don't have carefully placed and delicate scenery around the tracks then a good home vacuum is just fine.

KPF's marketing makes a point about vacuum, but LUX's vacuum is likely designed for a specific purpose. Less power on a vac can be compensated for with a smaller opening to generate greater suction, but that requires more precise aim and more area sweeping to cover larger ground. And if the dust mixes with oils, then vacuum isn't going to pick it up anyway, its got to be mechanically removed.

I'm wondering of one can just design an H0 track wand attachment that is designed to fit over the track bed and rails, and internally has a bit that can loosen the dirt on the track (brushes) and seals somewhat to the profile of the track. Then one can just bring in a household/shop vacuum, attach the want to the end of an extension hose that hangs over your shoulder, and you just set it down, and push it along the track (like those track bed application devices) with the want loosening and sucking up the 'stuff'. Of course that won't get rid of the dust on the scenery.. nothing like a good air purifier running in the room and a small blower/canned air to kick up that dust for filtration.

Not that we expect the train room to be HEPA clean.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline Br502362  
#34 Posted : 18 September 2016 08:37:43(UTC)
Br502362


Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 651
Location: Finland
Hi,

Inspired By KPF Zeller car I decided to make one by my self.

This is just a quickly made prototype to Märklin 4503 car.

DSC_0001.jpg
DSC_0002.jpg

Parts drawing

DSC_0003.jpg

Parts cut out from 4mm thick lexan sheet

DSC_0005.jpg

Axle (2,3mm thick) and spacers are from slot car spare parts

DSC_0008.jpg

DSC_0009.jpg

I took the spring which connects couplers and cut it half.
Then I mounted it across the chassis and glued them to coupler hooks.

DSC_0014.jpg

Then I drilled and made threads to install weights from stainless steel M6 screw.

DSC_0016.jpg

Weights attached

DSC_0017.jpg

And here it is. Honestly I must say that Märklin cleaning wagon with long fleece pads is much better,
but with this you get the point contacts cleaned too.

DSC_0019.jpg
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Offline PMPeter  
#35 Posted : 18 September 2016 16:01:42(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,134
Location: Port Moody, BC
What are you using for cleaning pads on the lexan?
Offline Br502362  
#36 Posted : 18 September 2016 16:43:55(UTC)
Br502362


Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 651
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
What are you using for cleaning pads on the lexan?


For tracks I used synthetic chamois which I happened to have i garage and rubber pad for point contacts.

Cheers

Åke
Offline Rinus  
#37 Posted : 18 September 2016 18:35:05(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi,

That KPF set might be a nice addition to my Lux cleaning cars.

How do they behave on switches? Most of my rail cleaning cars derail on switches. My Lux cleaners only manage when driving slowly. How do the KPF cars perform on switches and cross sections?

Looking forward to reply.

Rinus
Offline Thewolf  
#38 Posted : 20 September 2016 15:08:33(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,938
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi guys Cool

I contacted Mathias Zeller (Zeller KPF). All I can say is that this is someone helpful. He gave me a price for 2 cars and shipping. I will soon receive. I will also soon receive Magic Track

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline PMPeter  
#39 Posted : 20 September 2016 15:24:42(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,134
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

That KPF set might be a nice addition to my Lux cleaning cars.

How do they behave on switches? Most of my rail cleaning cars derail on switches. My Lux cleaners only manage when driving slowly. How do the KPF cars perform on switches and cross sections?

Looking forward to reply.

Rinus


I have had no problems with the KPF cars derailing on switches. They run like any normal freight car. However, I cannot say the same for the LUX cars. I do have problems with those on certain switches.

However, as previously mentioned, the KPF cars are unforgiving with even the slightest reversing. They derail immediately.

Cheers
Peter
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Offline Minok  
#40 Posted : 20 September 2016 22:30:36(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,222
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

However, as previously mentioned, the KPF cars are unforgiving with even the slightest reversing. They derail immediately.

Cheers
Peter


That pivoting, weighted arm for the cleaning pads surely just sticks and lifts up the car if run in the wrong direction.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline PMPeter  
#41 Posted : 21 September 2016 03:57:30(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,134
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

However, as previously mentioned, the KPF cars are unforgiving with even the slightest reversing. They derail immediately.

Cheers
Peter


That pivoting, weighted arm for the cleaning pads surely just sticks and lifts up the car if run in the wrong direction.


Exactly. It even makes it hard to couple the 2 cleaning cars together since they have the old style couplers that don't always couple the first time. That is why I wanted to change them out with the Roco universal couplers which appear to couple almost all of the time. Everything needs to be done while moving the cars forward.
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Offline Rinus  
#42 Posted : 21 September 2016 20:44:18(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Ok sounds very interesting!

I visited the website and noticed that they also offer one wet cleaning and one wet conservation pad.

You think it would then be ideal to have 4 cars in one train?

So: 1 SRW-A blue dry clean + 1 SRW-M + 1 SRW-A yellowSpezial-Reiniger + 1 SRW-A Konservator *SRW-Z*

what doyou think?

Rinus
Offline Minok  
#43 Posted : 21 September 2016 21:30:15(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,222
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
I think if you want to regularly run special trains as part of your train operation hobby, that cleans and maintains the rails, this seems like a feasible solution. If it doesn't end up working well at getting/keeping things clean, you still have an operations component that can be part of the every day process.

Whether its the right solution for a particular layout that gets used at some particular schedule/rate, is not knowable short of trying it or finding someone who has the same conditions/usage/idea and already tried it. Just for the sake of cleaning tracks, particularly if you have a seldom used layout or small layout it may be overkill where a manual wipe and just running normal stock may be sufficient.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline TEEWolf  
#44 Posted : 22 September 2016 05:31:26(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
Anyone have an opinion on the effectiveness of the 46049
Track Cleaning Car, or alternatively the 15500, or 24050
Track Cleaning Cars?


I use the Märklin 46049 as well as the Trix 24050. But the 15500 is too small for me, because it is gauge N.

In addition I use the cleaning dwarfs from NOCH

Reinigungszwerge NOCH

I always put one piece under a waggon in each train. I am very satiesfied with the cleaning results, although they are expensive, especially by my intensive use. Please be aware about the prices. I found enormous price differences for replacement felts and NOCH dwarfs in the internet.

The felt pads are quickly dirty (probably my air and engines are too dirty Blink ) and then you have to change them very often. So I bought isopropanol to dip the felts and dwarfs into it. I clean themselves in it a little bit, but also use them not dry but wet. The wet felt cleaning results are better as the dry one.

The 46049 and 24050 are same size and for my opinion to fragile for their obligation. So I put additional weight into this little (and they are really too small) waggons. Sometimes I set together a special "cleaning train", but you need a very powerful loco for this train. The resistance and the additional weight is enormous, but the cleaning results too.
Offline Minok  
#45 Posted : 29 November 2016 23:46:43(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,222
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
So looking at other things on Stummi I came across a year old post there on the Lux track cleaning cars which have some great videos that convey the noise the things make. He made several videos - one of just the wheel grinder running, one of the vacuum running, one of a loco pulling the consist of grinder+vacuum without any loco sounds, and 4th video of the diesel loco with its sound playing (diesel engine sounds) with the grinder+vacuum consist.

The 4th one is most enlightening as it lets you put into a frame of reference the sound levels. By themselves, in a silent room, that grinder and vac sound horrendously loud.. but once that cacophony includes the diesel engine sound, you get a known reference sound and can thus understand the loudness isn't as huge as the sensitive camera microphone has recorded.

The thread post on the Lux cars with videos is here: http://www.stummiforum.d...c.php?p=1458446#p1458446

The videos themselves:

Grinder


Vacuum


Combined train without loco sounds


Combined train WITH diesel loco sounds


The one thing I thought about was that it was odd that the grinding car would keep the motor of the grinder going when the car isn't rolling... as I'd think that would grind one spot down in the rail... but maybe the device that senses motion isn't tunable to be that sensitive. I'd think a rotation sensor would be able to shut that sucker off immediately.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline Dreadnought  
#46 Posted : 30 November 2016 15:04:16(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 405
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Hello Minok,

I have had this Lux set for several years now, since 2009? I think. I like it, but there are still times I have to clean by hand. The "grinder" is more of a bristle pad. I have not noticed any unusual wear from it. In fact it is wearing down. It has a battery that means the brushing keeps going for a few seconds after the car stops. Similarly it turns as soon as power is put to the track.

It works well, but is rather expensive. It is also quite delicate, particularly the couplers. It also needs to be set for the pressure of the brush on the rail.

There are few other posts in the forum about it, and track cleaning in general.
Offline Minok  
#47 Posted : 13 August 2017 19:49:28(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,222
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Just came across this on YouTube, a prototypical cleaning train. It grinds the rails and sprays water ahead to prevent any following sparks from starting a grass fire.

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline Jabez  
#48 Posted : 13 August 2017 21:28:31(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
My question is: why would they want to grind or polish the rails in the first place? Surely regular traffic keeps 'em shiny. Is it perhaps only for newly laid track, there must be some reason why they go to such trouble.
Jabez
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline PMPeter  
#49 Posted : 13 August 2017 22:04:15(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,134
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
My question is: why would they want to grind or polish the rails in the first place? Surely regular traffic keeps 'em shiny. Is it perhaps only for newly laid track, there must be some reason why they go to such trouble.
Jabez


In real life rail operation the rails do not wear evenly, lose their desired profile, get damaged by excessive braking, etc. Rail grinding is done on a scheduled maintenance basis in order to restore the profile as much as possible. I'm not sure how often they can be ground before they need replacement. It also depends on the weight and service of the rail.

Peter
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