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Offline ShannonN  
#1 Posted : 12 September 2016 13:40:03(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Hi All
After a recent conversation with a German friend he is going to give me a heap of new (never used) track and other items from his collection. (No Locos or rolling stock - they are up for sale) This track is 3 rail DC analogue stuff from mid 50's to early 70's locos. The track has the solid 3rd rail rather than the stud of the C-track I'm using at present.

My question is mainly "Can I use SOME of this track with my c track without electronic incompatibility." Having only R1 curves and std starter kit straights and turnouts, I'm in need of r2/3 type curves which these appear to be as well as those cross (X) pieces.

While I don't want a total DC layout as I have no dc locos, if I can't use the track in conjunction with c track I'll still take what I'm given :) I may be able to wangle that brand new never used crocodile he has LOL

Thanks in advance
Shanny
Offline SNAFU  
#2 Posted : 12 September 2016 13:49:45(UTC)
SNAFU

Australia   
Joined: 08/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 279
Location: Naracoorte, South Austrlia
hi Shannon
Unless the track has a centre rail/studs or known as pukos, then it will be incompatible.
Tony
Tony
Curiosity hasn't killed this cat yet.
Offline ShannonN  
#3 Posted : 12 September 2016 15:20:24(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: SNAFU Go to Quoted Post
hi Shannon
Unless the track has a centre rail/studs or known as pukos, then it will be incompatible.
Tony


Hi Tony
From my original post

"This track is 3 rail DC analogue stuff from mid 50's to early 70's locos. The track has the solid 3rd rail" ( meaning solid centre rail)
Shanny
Offline PMPeter  
#4 Posted : 12 September 2016 18:00:31(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SNAFU Go to Quoted Post
hi Shannon
Unless the track has a centre rail/studs or known as pukos, then it will be incompatible.
Tony


Hi Tony
From my original post

"This track is 3 rail DC analogue stuff from mid 50's to early 70's locos. The track has the solid 3rd rail" ( meaning solid centre rail)
Shanny


I guess where the confusion is coming in is with the "3 rail DC". Is the track the old style M track with a solid centre rail or some other manufacture? If it is M track then it would be compatible to be connected with the C track using the appropriate transition track. If the locos are 3 rail DC, then that is another question.
Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 12 September 2016 19:29:47(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I once had a box full of 3 rail DC track made by Hornby Dublo. Although the profile of the rails was slightly different it could be used with Marklin M-track.

As I recall the turnouts were not sprung so that you couldn't go through from the wrong side if it was not set for your direction.

Other 3 rail DC track from that era was made by Trix. I don't know how compatible that is with Marklin.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline ShannonN  
#6 Posted : 13 September 2016 01:40:16(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SNAFU Go to Quoted Post
hi Shannon
Unless the track has a centre rail/studs or known as pukos, then it will be incompatible.
Tony


Hi Tony
From my original post

"This track is 3 rail DC analogue stuff from mid 50's to early 70's locos. The track has the solid 3rd rail" ( meaning solid centre rail)
Shanny


I guess where the confusion is coming in is with the "3 rail DC". Is the track the old style M track with a solid centre rail or some other manufacture? If it is M track then it would be compatible to be connected with the C track using the appropriate transition track. If the locos are 3 rail DC, then that is another question.


Ok. My bad I don't know all the correct designations for Marklin stuff. Yes the track is Marklin 3 rail M track with a solid centre rail. Comes from a collection that was dc only.

I run modern starter kit digital c track all my locos are digital and I am using the digital wi fi controllers that came with the base starter kits as well as the built in "ugly" digital power connectors

Can you explain what transition track is needed (Part #?) I am still learning all this stuff and appreciate the hand holding
Offline ShannonN  
#7 Posted : 13 September 2016 01:43:55(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I once had a box full of 3 rail DC track made by Hornby Dublo. Although the profile of the rails was slightly different it could be used with Marklin M-track.

As I recall the turnouts were not sprung so that you couldn't go through from the wrong side if it was not set for your direction.

Other 3 rail DC track from that era was made by Trix. I don't know how compatible that is with Marklin.



Reading online elsewhere that there may be some issues with loco pickup (height) on the M track, the article didn't say if M track is higher in the centre track or lower - but gave the impression it may be lower

Shanny



Offline PMPeter  
#8 Posted : 13 September 2016 01:46:48(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
The Marklin C to M transition track is part number 24951.
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Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 13 September 2016 05:01:51(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
Hi All
After a recent conversation with a German friend he is going to give me a heap of new (never used) track and other items from his collection. (No Locos or rolling stock - they are up for sale) This track is 3 rail DC analogue stuff from mid 50's to early 70's locos. The track has the solid 3rd rail rather than the stud of the C-track I'm using at present.

My question is mainly "Can I use SOME of this track with my c track without electronic incompatibility." Having only R1 curves and std starter kit straights and turnouts, I'm in need of r2/3 type curves which these appear to be as well as those cross (X) pieces.

While I don't want a total DC layout as I have no dc locos, if I can't use the track in conjunction with c track I'll still take what I'm given :) I may be able to wangle that brand new never used crocodile he has LOL

Thanks in advance
Shanny


I am not sure whether you are referring to Maerklin M Track with the solid third rail (193X-1965) or whether you are referring to another brand, like Trix Express, which offered 3 rail DC. The Trix Express tracks are NOT compatible with Maerklin's tracks.

If it is the older M Track, the contact tongue at the end of the track piece is wider than the one used by the more modern versions of the track, be it M, K or C Track, which might cause some problems in certain cases. If using a mix of solid and "puko" middle rail equipped track, you may find that this will cause more rapid wear and tear on the sliders. One of the advantages of the pukos was that it reduced the wear on the sliders.

Regards

Mike C

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Offline ShannonN  
#10 Posted : 13 September 2016 07:14:33(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
Hi All
After a recent conversation with a German friend he is going to give me a heap of new (never used) track and other items from his collection. (No Locos or rolling stock - they are up for sale) This track is 3 rail DC analogue stuff from mid 50's to early 70's locos. The track has the solid 3rd rail rather than the stud of the C-track I'm using at present.

My question is mainly "Can I use SOME of this track with my c track without electronic incompatibility." Having only R1 curves and std starter kit straights and turnouts, I'm in need of r2/3 type curves which these appear to be as well as those cross (X) pieces.

While I don't want a total DC layout as I have no dc locos, if I can't use the track in conjunction with c track I'll still take what I'm given :) I may be able to wangle that brand new never used crocodile he has LOL

Thanks in advance
Shanny


I am not sure whether you are referring to Maerklin M Track with the solid third rail (193X-1965) or whether you are referring to another brand, like Trix Express, which offered 3 rail DC. The Trix Express tracks are NOT compatible with Maerklin's tracks.

If it is the older M Track, the contact tongue at the end of the track piece is wider than the one used by the more modern versions of the track, be it M, K or C Track, which might cause some problems in certain cases. If using a mix of solid and "puko" middle rail equipped track, you may find that this will cause more rapid wear and tear on the sliders. One of the advantages of the pukos was that it reduced the wear on the sliders.

Regards

Mike C



Thanks Mike this is def Maerklin M Track with solid centre rail this guy brought all his stuff from Marklin in Germany before emigrating in 70 's
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 13 September 2016 07:56:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

In the past many people used Märklin tracks and Märklin locos with DC - usually bypassing the MRU (mechanical reversing unit) with two diodes. This requires no modification of the track.

There is no AC track or DC track, no analogue track or digital track.
Tracks work with AC or DC, analogue or digital - in some cases the radio interference suppressors must be removed.

The DC in "3 rail DC analogue stuff" could be a red herring if we really talk about Märklin H0 track.

The starter set "WIFI" controllers are actually IR controllers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ShannonN  
#12 Posted : 13 September 2016 12:42:14(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

In the past many people used Märklin tracks and Märklin locos with DC - usually bypassing the MRU (mechanical reversing unit) with two diodes. This requires no modification of the track.

There is no AC track or DC track, no analogue track or digital track.
Tracks work with AC or DC, analogue or digital - in some cases the radio interference suppressors must be removed.

The DC in "3 rail DC analogue stuff" could be a red herring if we really talk about Märklin H0 track.

The starter set "WIFI" controllers are actually IR controllers.


Look you are correct in what you point out, however I have used my own terms wi-fi for ir as I figured ppl would probably get my meaning. I could have used the "remote control thingy" and I guess someone would have known what I meant.

I may be forgetting this is an international forum and many of the audience are non native English speakers and as English I'm told is a very difficult language to learn, verbosity or incorrect phraseology may lead to confusion.

As I pointed out somewhere else I am completely new to model trains in any form, having decided 2 mths ago I need a hobby on a active level rather than play trainz 12 on a computer, I like the need to be challenged with construction etc.

I don't know any of the terminology Maerklin or otherwise, I do not have 30 yrs of MMR experience, I do not know what most of the abbreviations , part numbers etc. mean , are used for anything, so cut me some slack in my descriptions ok?

Thanks to all for patience and assistance as always
Shanny


Offline Angus  
#13 Posted : 13 September 2016 13:24:53(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: Johannesburg
Hi Shanny

Not to worry you will learn all these things with time, also a lot of us who have been in a particular field for a while forget how easy we jump into acronyms & 'internal jargon' without even knowing it. Watch. it will happen to you to :).

Peter did point you to the correct transition track for M-track to C-track - 24951. You should get two in a box.

Be careful with those solid rails as pointed out, the wear on the slider can be higher and I have had it where the slider had caught on the solid rail when going from a 'studded' center to solid center. Granted the solid rail track was not in the best condition.

I have used M-track with my C-track regularly for where I would like to make changes to existing plans just to see if it works, then will go spend some money on C-track when I am happy that it's working how I like it.

Hope that helps
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Offline ShannonN  
#14 Posted : 13 September 2016 14:46:22(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: Angus Go to Quoted Post
Hi Shanny

Not to worry you will learn all these things with time, also a lot of us who have been in a particular field for a while forget how easy we jump into acronyms & 'internal jargon' without even knowing it. Watch. it will happen to you to :).

Peter did point you to the correct transition track for M-track to C-track - 24951. You should get two in a box.

Be careful with those solid rails as pointed out, the wear on the slider can be higher and I have had it where the slider had caught on the solid rail when going from a 'studded' center to solid center. Granted the solid rail track was not in the best condition.

I have used M-track with my C-track regularly for where I would like to make changes to existing plans just to see if it works, then will go spend some money on C-track when I am happy that it's working how I like it.

Hope that helps


Thanks for the tips Angus, I'm kind of only really looking at using a minimum of M track to just try a different layout without the added expense of buying the c track equivalents.

I'm hoping by using maybe 4 distinct M track pieces in a 10 to 14 foot x 4 foot layout will limit the wear or risk of damage.
Mind you, the 4 pieces will probably be points and cross over pieces so guess they're potentially the riskiest pieces overall.

I do have two battery powered marklin starter kits, thus having no pickups will be a bonus on either the c track combo or M track, so I plan on using these almost exclusively on a dedicated M track layout to maximize the use of the free track and buildings while giving me an opportunity to create a totally different theme from the main Lunar Mining theme I have chosen on the main layout.

Blessings Shanny
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Offline Angus  
#15 Posted : 13 September 2016 16:21:13(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: Johannesburg
You also need to keep in mind that you need to plan carefully what & where you going to convert to M and then back to C again because at each of these you will need the converter track. So if your point is M and the it's smack bang in the middle of C track, you'll need three 24951's, similarly you'd need four for the crossover. You might end up spending more on converter tracks rather than just getting the C track item you need.

I am very keen to see how your Lunar theme progresses, similar theme, my boys and I have a loco pulling around a consist of low sided wagons carrying miniature Star Wars ships :)
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Offline ShannonN  
#16 Posted : 13 September 2016 18:16:18(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: Angus Go to Quoted Post


I am very keen to see how your Lunar theme progresses, similar theme, my boys and I have a loco pulling around a consist of low sided wagons carrying miniature Star Wars ships :)


I may look at just saving and buying the c track parts and keep all the M track for a separate layout thanks for that advice.

RE My Lunar theme It's a working regolith surface mining operation with a "cement works" style conveyor and coal loader type equipment

I have built a L shaped layout that is essentially two 4' x 4' benches joined, then added an existing 6' 8" x 2' board to create the L, next week when pension arrives I'll add 1 more 4 x 4. to save time with scenery, I have a lunar surface image created in Photoshop that will be printed out by Officeworks @ poster size (100cm x 70cm) and glued to my bench top so 3 posters will make the 10 ft length and pretty much 2 of the 4 ft width.

This will simulate the moon surface from a walking height perspective. The other untouched width can be hidden by buildings and such.

I include the jpg of the lunar surface if you wish to use a similar approach **moonsurface.jpg.**

convert the jpg back to a .tif for better printing. I also plan on using a space 1999 model "Eagle transport" and landing pad which I have started to build - here's the landing pad image at required size, which I put on a small lid off a flip lid tidy bin from local thrift store. Here's a model kit's finished image for reference and a pdf with a paper cutout eagle your boys may like building.

Pictorial building guide for eaglehere

There are plastic eagle models on Amazon dot com US for about 30 dollars in 1/72 scale

I feel there's room for two such lunar themes in the solar system. Hope your boys like the goodies

Blessings Shannyeagle.jpg189MP04_Space-1999-Launch-Pad_01.jpgeagle space 1999 Dinky 24 product iconic mattel.jpg Eagle1999.pdf (2,339kb) downloaded 18 time(s).



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Offline Angus  
#17 Posted : 14 September 2016 13:48:59(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: Johannesburg
Thanks Shanny, as soon as I give the plans to the boys you are going to become their favourite person :)
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Offline ShannonN  
#18 Posted : 14 September 2016 14:13:03(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: Angus Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Shanny, as soon as I give the plans to the boys you are going to become their favourite person :)


No Problems
If your boys like paper model building I have many sci- fi model spaceships and moon craft to scale PM me if you want them
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#19 Posted : 15 September 2016 20:22:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: SNAFU Go to Quoted Post
hi Shannon
Unless the track has a centre rail/studs or known as pukos, then it will be incompatible.
Tony


You can use solid centre rail with studded track as well. You need to use a pair of pliars to bend the ends of the solid centre rail down about 10 degrees so the pickup shoe doesn't catch at it comes off a studded section. Ideally do every piece of track at both ends if you are going to keep dismantling the track, then it won't matter which order of track pieces you reassemble it in.

My father did this for a friend when studded M track first came out and he wanted to expand his layout but couldn't get more solid centre rail.

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