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Offline Unholz  
#1 Posted : 12 September 2016 09:24:07(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Perhaps the gadgets simply don't like me, perhaps the voltage in my environment is too high, or then my expectations with regard to "good old German quality" are excessive... Crying Blink

But after a Mobile Station 2 (60653) simply breathed its last breath in the spring of this year (and is incredibly still either at Göppingen waiting for a repair or lost somewhere in the mail), the replacement MS 3 (60657) I had to buy early in May also suddenly departed yesterday (no more reaction, no lights, just nothing...). Cursing

O.K., one might call it a cheap electronic gadget, but a life span of only just a bit more than four months still seems too short IMO. And I am rather annoyed due to regularly having to spend time and money for sending parcels to my dealer and then waiting for ages for the thing to return.

Hello Märklin, just what has happened to your reputation and quality? Sad
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#2 Posted : 12 September 2016 10:03:31(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
But after a Mobile Station 2 (60653) simply breathed its last breath in the spring of this year (and is incredibly still either at Göppingen waiting for a repair or lost somewhere in the mail), the replacement MS 3 (60657) I had to buy early in May also suddenly departed yesterday (no more reaction, no lights, just nothing...). Cursing

That is really curious. I have four MS2 (the 60657 is a MS2, too, not a MS3!) and all of them work well. Only one of them has sometimes a bit strange behaviour and I have to reset it.

What kind of power supply do You use?

Moritz

Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 12 September 2016 10:53:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My old one and my newer one both occasionally reset themselves, but I suspect an interruption in power rather than an actual MS2 problem.

Stefan, do you not have a Marklin Dealer close to you so that you can avoid sending things in the mail for repair?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Unholz  
#4 Posted : 12 September 2016 12:57:50(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Moritz, the power supply is a Marklin "Schaltnetzteil" carrying the product number 66361.

Ray, unfortunately I bought it from a dealer not located in my home town, and the Swiss Marklin guarantee states that customers should send defective products back to the seller. The Swiss Marklin subsidiary also refuses to communicate directly with end users.
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Offline Harryv40  
#5 Posted : 12 September 2016 21:15:44(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 242
Location: Wilshire
Moritz
That what I call a customer focused service!

Harry
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Offline baggio  
#6 Posted : 13 September 2016 05:43:49(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Moritz:

Have you had any problems with any other electronic gadget in your house over the last year?

If so, try to figure out why the problems arise and do NOT put any other expensive electronic gadget in your outlets until you know it is safe to do so.

I would suggest that unless you know for a fact that there is a problem on your end, then you should assume that the problem is with Marklin's quality control.


The reality is that we all have to accept that Marklin today is no longer what it was 50 years ago. Sad, but true.



Offline Unholz  
#7 Posted : 13 September 2016 06:05:08(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
baggio, it's not Moritz who is having a problem, it's me. Wink But no, I do not have any problems with any other gadgets other than these Mobile Stations - my remark in the first sentence of the initial posting was supposed to be a joke.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 13 September 2016 08:18:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
The 66361 is a Chine-made switching-mode power supply that should provide a constant output voltage even from varying input voltages. I think it is a rather robust one.
If the MS2 fails then maybe it is not because of "power detonations" on the mains line as the power supply filters at least some of those.

I don't know where the MS2 is assembled - probably neither Göppingen nor Győr.

I had to sent one MS2 back to Märklin because the display failed after a few hours of operation. No failures apart from that.
All my MS2 have the old 2.0 hardware, not the new 2.1 hardware (whatever the difference may be).

Some MS2 can be re-animated using the red button trick and a CS2.

Maybe the MS2 has a normal or even low failure rate and Stefan just had some bad luck.

The majority of the Swiss people voted for "Remain" - and remained outside the EU.
If I send a defective item to a German dealer for a warranty repair I can make the dealer pay for the postage. I don't know if this is just a German regulation or a EU requirement.
Oops. Sorry, politics are not allowed here.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 14 September 2016 05:58:50(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Moritz, the power supply is a Marklin "Schaltnetzteil" carrying the product number 66361.

Ray, unfortunately I bought it from a dealer not located in my home town, and the Swiss Marklin guarantee states that customers should send defective products back to the seller. The Swiss Marklin subsidiary also refuses to communicate directly with end users.


Stefan,

does this mean that Herr Stelzer no longer replies to technical question emails and warranty related issues?

Regards

Mike C
Offline Unholz  
#10 Posted : 14 September 2016 08:06:31(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

does this mean that Herr Stelzer no longer replies to technical question emails and warranty related issues?


Sorry, my remark was perhaps a bit confusing: Marklin Switzerland still maintains a phone number and an email address for technical questions, but they require you to handle all repair issues through their dealers. I would find it much easier to send defective products directly to Oberentfelden (CH).
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#11 Posted : 14 September 2016 08:37:02(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Marklin Switzerland still maintains a phone number and an email address for technical questions, but they require you to handle all repair issues through their dealers. I would find it much easier to send defective products directly to Oberentfelden (CH).


I sent last week a defect mSD decoder to Märklin Göppingen and this week they returned a replacement decoder for free! That's how it should be. Thanks Märklin!

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Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 14 September 2016 09:32:27(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Marklin Switzerland still maintains a phone number and an email address for technical questions, but they require you to handle all repair issues through their dealers. I would find it much easier to send defective products directly to Oberentfelden (CH).


I sent last week a defect mSD decoder to Märklin Göppingen and this week they returned a replacement decoder for free! That's how it should be. Thanks Märklin!



so Märklin changed their policy on faulty decoders, before you had to send the whole loco back


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#13 Posted : 14 September 2016 09:38:23(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
so Märklin changed their policy on faulty decoders, before you had to send the whole loco back


Hello John,
it is an mSD decoder, not an decoder from an Märklin loco.

Offline baggio  
#14 Posted : 14 September 2016 14:42:53(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
it is an mSD decoder, not an decoder from an Märklin loco.
Confused Blushing

Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 14 September 2016 15:23:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
it is an mSD decoder, not an decoder from an Märklin loco.
Confused Blushing



I guess we are talking about a decoder bought separately and not one that came installed in a Marklin loco?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 15 September 2016 08:31:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
so Märklin changed their policy on faulty decoders, before you had to send the whole loco back
Maybe the policy depends on the individual customer history.

I returned several single decoders for fixing or replacement.
They wrote I should send the complete locos to allow them to test the decoder after the upgrade/replacement, but also wrote I could just send the decoders. To save postage costs I sent several single decoders. I can do the testing myself.

They returned one of the decoders unchanged. I emailed them to ask about the decoder. They mailed me a new decoder, asking to have the faulty decoder sent to them. So there is yet another policy.


But this thread is about faulty MS2s. You have to return the complete MS2. There may be different ways to get a warranty repair - different ways with different postage costs.

Märklin are not required to pay the postage when you mail the item directly to them.
Dealers may be required to pay the postage, depending on national laws.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#17 Posted : 15 September 2016 22:19:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

does this mean that Herr Stelzer no longer replies to technical question emails and warranty related issues?


Sorry, my remark was perhaps a bit confusing: Marklin Switzerland still maintains a phone number and an email address for technical questions, but they require you to handle all repair issues through their dealers. I would find it much easier to send defective products directly to Oberentfelden (CH).


It doesn't matter what product you buy, if it is under warranty your first port of call is your dealer. It may be there is a known problem which the dealer may have been informed about, and could give you a direct swap with a new ms2 (in this case)

When your new car goes faulty you don't take it back to the factory, you take it to the dealer who sorts out the warranty repair.

However I suspect the OPs problem is a case of early failure on the bathtub curve.

I have explained this before - and it pertains to any product you buy, not just Marklin, and not just electronic.

Consider the cross section of a bathtub, the sort most of us have at home. It has a steepish slope each side and an essentially flat bottom, and the bottom is raised a little off the floor.

Now consider this cross section as a graph of failure rates of a manufactured item over time, with time being the horizontal axis.. It starts with a high failure rate that drops steadily with time, then levels out at a low (but non-zero) failure rate, then starts to climb again to a high failure rate. The manufacturer (nominally) sets the warranty period to the time that it takes the failure rate to reach the flat bottom, so that customers get early failures repaired (referred to as 'infant mortality'), then have a period of reliable service before the product reaches what is termed End Of Life and the failure rate climbs again. Anyone who owns a car will have seen this happen as it gets to 10 years+ in age.

So I think the MS2 in this case has suffered infant mortality.

Note also that for high reliability products where customers are prepared to pay significantly more money, manufacturers will test the item in a manner that gives some accelerated aging. For an electronics product this will typically involve having the product operate for a number of hours (often a week or more) at a high temperature to try and force the early failures. The product going out to the customer should then be at the bottom of the bathtub curve and less likely to suffer a failure - but the total failure rate is still not zero. However for a product such as the ms2 to have this level of testing you would need to be prepared to pay around four times as much for it. From the manufactures point of view it is cheaper to exchange the customers item, and have the dealer either throw away the returned one, or return it to the manufacturer for repair. Either way the dealer gets reimbursed by the manufacturer for all or most of the costs.
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