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Offline Sander van Wijk  
#1 Posted : 04 July 2016 12:06:06(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi all,

After numerous (hundreds) of conversions, including locos with Märklin C-Sine motors, I am stuck with a mystery. After converting a Trix 22130 BR 05 (Märklin 39050) to ESU loksound, leaving the original circuit board in place, the loco reacts perfectly to all commands, but the speed is uncontrollable. Direction of travel is controllable, but from speed step one onwards, it will run at full speed.

Already attempted adjustments that all lead to the same result (most of them in various combinations):
- Exchanging one ESU decoder for another (plug and play, 21 pins MTC anyway)
- Switching Aux 4 (which is permanently on with normal Softdrive C-Sine motors) off
- Switching load control off
- Controlling the motor as a Faulhaber or Maxon
- Running the automated decoder configuring procedure (with CV 54 = 0)

Nothing helps, it remains the same under all conditions. Any thoughts on what could cause this and - better - how to solve it?

Thanks in advance!
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Sander van Wijk
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 04 July 2016 12:50:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,343
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

The Trix loco came with a decoder from Döhler & Haass and AFAIK it used a special "serial" technique to control the C Sine motor.
ESU decoders support this mode, please consult the manual (CV 124).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#3 Posted : 04 July 2016 13:27:27(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi Tom,

Thanks! This seems to be exactly what I need to be testing. I will do so as soon as possible (will possibly take a few weeks, though) and report back on the results.

Cheers,
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Sander van Wijk
Offline applor  
#4 Posted : 04 July 2016 23:28:31(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,503
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Congrats on the model, I have the 39050 and it is possibly my favourite (if such a thing is possible). There's no going past those giant 2.4m driving wheels!

Hope you can get it working.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by applor
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 05 July 2016 00:35:52(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,116
Location: New Zealand
Sander, Applor is right, 39050 is a great model so I hope you get your Trix conversion completed OK. Good luck!
Offline biedmatt  
#6 Posted : 05 July 2016 01:07:19(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
While not a real livery, 39052 is very nice in F-zug blue. Shame they didn't give it a different (fictional) road number to go with the fictional color scheme. It BTW, does not have a Sinus drive motor.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline applor  
#7 Posted : 09 July 2016 01:34:44(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,503
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
While not a real livery, 39052 is very nice in F-zug blue. Shame they didn't give it a different (fictional) road number to go with the fictional color scheme. It BTW, does not have a Sinus drive motor.


I actually had the 39051 and traded it for the 39050 to match my era.
I have the BR03.10 'Blue Mauritius' in the F-zug blue which is an amazing model (Roco 69281)
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#8 Posted : 02 August 2016 07:38:46(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi all,

After lots of testing with the motor settings including CV 124 (exactly according to the manual), there is, I am afraid, still no success to be reported. Could anyone shed some more light on how this could work? Apart from CV 124 = 28, what other settings are required? If anyone has attempted this before, what settings worked for you?

Still very much looking forward for the key advice. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline applor  
#9 Posted : 03 August 2016 12:35:09(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,503
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I am guessing you've read through the manual? Which exact model ESU decoder are you using?
If you have done the below steps and it is still not working, perhaps e-mail ESU?
According to the manual it should work provided you keep the driver board (which you have) and so they should be able to provide support.


The LokPilot decoder cannot drive the newer Märklin®-models
with C-Sine motors (also called „SoftDrive-Sinus“) directly. To
facilitate this, a circuit board supplied with the locomotive is
required. Märklin uses the 21MTC interface installed on this
circuit board and thus utilises the normal motor commands form
the decoder for the exchange of information.
Both the LokPilot V3.0 and the LokPilot V3.0 M4 with the 21MTC
interface are suitable for controlling the C-Sine control electronics
provided some parameters are set accordingly. Chapter 11.5.
explains the necessary steps.
Some Trix® locomotives have the same C-Sine motor; however,
the control electronics in Trix® locomotives communicate in a
different manner with the decoder. Currently it is not possible to
run such locomotives with LokPilot decoders even though


11.5. Settings for the C-Sinus Motor
LokPilot decoders with the 21MTC interface can drive the new
C-Sinus motors indirectly via the circuit board installed in the
locomotive. The LokPilot can generate all necessary signals
provided you readjust certain settings:
Load compensation must be turned off as described in chapter
11.2.
The control electronics of the motor also need a switched logic
voltage provided by the LokPilot on output AUX4. AUX4 must
therefore be active while the locomotive is stopped and while it
is moving (in both directions!).
LokPilot V3.0
Write the values below into the respective CVs:
CV Value
CV 129 32
CV 132 32
CV 135 32
CV 138 32
LokPilot V3.0 M4
Use the LokProgrammer or the Central Station in order to activate
AUX4 for the stationary locomotive and for the moving locomotive
in both directions as shown in Fig. 16.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#10 Posted : 04 August 2016 11:49:52(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi Eric, all,

sure, I have tried the settings above and on top of that fiddled with CV 124, as some Trix loco's have a differently working motor control circuit board, requiring serial control. All to no avail. Perhaps ESU indeed has an answer, in parallel, I hope someone here has experience with this. For clarity; I am using a Loksound 54400 with the original motor control circuit board.

Kind regards,
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#11 Posted : 10 August 2016 21:55:06(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
All,

In the meantime, I have searched the ESU Forums too. Unfortunately, to no avail. The only solution mentioned there (in a post dating from 2011) is to replace the motor with a Maxon. I am still hoping for something better.... Any suggestions much appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 11 August 2016 14:42:56(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,434
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Sander van Wijk Go to Quoted Post
All,

In the meantime, I have searched the ESU Forums too. Unfortunately, to no avail. The only solution mentioned there (in a post dating from 2011) is to replace the motor with a Maxon. I am still hoping for something better.... Any suggestions much appreciated!

Thanks in advance,


Try the Loksound Yahoo group, there are some pretty knowledgable guys there, and the US representative of ESU monitors it and pops up periodically.

Offline Sander van Wijk  
#13 Posted : 15 August 2016 14:59:49(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Thanks, Alan.

A search on that Yahoo Group revealed that - at least - I am not alone (https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/loksound/conversations/messages/19307). However, no solution their either. It seems a though cookie, this one.

Current thinking is to either accept the current OEM decoder and leave it at that, or replace the PCB for a Märklin one.

Any alternative ideas appreciated!
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline anthpao  
#14 Posted : 16 August 2016 00:55:42(UTC)
anthpao

Greece   
Joined: 20/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Have you tried the Aux3 always on solution. Try this with and without aux4 always on.
Offline biedmatt  
#15 Posted : 16 August 2016 01:24:52(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
The PCB isn't the problem, it's the sinus drive motor. The only way around that is to replace it. I put this in my 39050. The motor itself just glues into place, but you need to use your Dremel tool to create some clearance inside the boiler for the flywheel. BTW, with this motor and a state of the art decoder, it will run even better.

http://www.sb-modellbau....ducts_id=1667&cPath=
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by biedmatt
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