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Offline kamstutz  
#1 Posted : 17 June 2016 03:56:55(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
This past 6 weeks or so I have been cataloging all of my M collection. My collection is small (+- 160 items), and it has proven to be a long process, but the investment of time has taught me a lot and I encourage all collectors to grab a copy of Koll's, open up Google Translate (unless you have no trouble with German) and get started. The process has taught me about couplers, wheel axle types, colors and lettering - to name a few features to help with discovering version numbers.

I had initially started my list with a simple Excel spreadsheet, only to abandon that to try a couple of dedicated collection software programs, finally abandoning them and creating my own solution. I develop software for my job and this process of creating a collection database has not proven to be too difficult. To help me get started I adapted the excellent Stummi forum Marklin database (http://www.baseportal.de/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/Stumm/Maerklin) for my needs. The only issue I found with this database is that it does not include the older vintage items that I currently collect (circa <1965). These I have added to my own copy to support my own needs. Still the base data was an excellent starting point.

I got to thinking afterwards that this database might be interesting to "crowdsource". For those not familiar with the term it basically means to enlist the help of others typically via the Internet. My idea would be to put the database online for all to use and (after some form of authentication) others could add/update the entries contained therein. Consumption (viewing) of the database would be open to the public (much like Stummi, but with better searching/filtering), but adding and editing would only be available after some registration process. An added benefit to registering would be the ability to create one or more collections of your own using the data in the database. If you so decided, you could make this list public , with others. I have been frustrated by several collection software products that store your collection in proprietary formats that don't allow you to leave the software for other products or merely to create a simple list. My idea is that if you built your own collection(s) using the database then you could export it at anytime to either a spreadsheet or comma separated format for import into another system of your choice. There would be no lock down on the data. There are other possibilities too such as creating additional collections for your "Want lists" and "Items for Sale". These could be cross referenced - one person's "want" list against another person's "for sale" list.

So am I a dreamer to think something like this would work? Probably yes, but at least 25% of the work has already been done for my own usage. I'm not interested in charging for useage, nor taking or charging comissions for helping collectors buy or sell - there are no hidden costs.

I'd like to throw this idea out to the group and get your feedback on this idea. If the website with this database were available to you online (no cost) would you use it? Would you create an account to have the ability to create personal collections? Would you check that the data is correct for your items and update it if it were not? Would you add in new items if they were not in the database? What would be your worries about such a system? If you wouldn't use it, why not? Any feedback would be appreciated and you won't hurt my feelings if you don't like the idea - just give me reasons. It would still take a lot of work to get the information into a website so I want to get a feel for the usefulness or not for the effort required.

Kurt Amstutz
Orlando, FL

nb: Post will be cross-published on Marklin user group, Bar & Grill and ETE (sorry for the duplication, but I'd like the maximum number of comments)
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by kamstutz
Offline michelvr  
#2 Posted : 17 June 2016 04:29:01(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Hello Kurt,

This sounds like a fantastic solution to me, count me in! Presently I use a spreadsheet for my collection, having a database would be more user friendly and would certainly help in sorting out specific criteria. For example what type of wheel sets the cars have. I'm interested and if you need any input into the data descriptions let me know. It's amazing what information exists on a piece of rolling stock.

Regards,

Michel
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by michelvr
Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 17 June 2016 07:15:56(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
I think that a better approach would be to Open Source the end product.. Use something like OpenOffice/Libre Office or even a HTML5/CSS3 web-based solution. Of course, it needs an ongoing strategy..
- How do we keep the development and data gathering going?
- As an International product how we ensure equal access to the product regardless of a person's first language (mine is English, but those guys over the pond can't spell)?
- Standards around image sizes - will video be acceptable?
- It needs a legal basis - where is the line between Marklin's Intellectual Property and enthusiastic hobbyists?
- It needs a financial basis - even if it operates on a volunteer basis, there is still web-hosting to fund.

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by xxup
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 17 June 2016 08:00:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
So am I a dreamer to think something like this would work?
This idea does work. It already works under http://gleiswarze.de
The UI is German only, but otherwise it sounds much like your description.

So maybe just contact Achim and discuss the options to add an English UI.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline kamstutz  
#5 Posted : 18 June 2016 06:04:57(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Kurt,

This sounds like a fantastic solution to me, count me in! Presently I use a spreadsheet for my collection, having a database would be more user friendly and would certainly help in sorting out specific criteria. For example what type of wheel sets the cars have. I'm interested and if you need any input into the data descriptions let me know. It's amazing what information exists on a piece of rolling stock.

Regards,

Michel


Thanks Michel - If you get a chance please annex a list of the required fields (columns) that you are currently using. I'm trying to nail down the basic attribute requirements that one would need to track in an indexed catalog. I've got the ones that were used in the master database that I cloned, plus additional ones that I needed, but I'm interested in discovering those all those fields that are universally important and that most collectors would require.

Offline kamstutz  
#6 Posted : 18 June 2016 06:23:37(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I think that a better approach would be to Open Source the end product.. Use something like OpenOffice/Libre Office or even a HTML5/CSS3 web-based solution. Of course, it needs an ongoing strategy..
- How do we keep the development and data gathering going?
- As an International product how we ensure equal access to the product regardless of a person's first language (mine is English, but those guys over the pond can't spell)?
- Standards around image sizes - will video be acceptable?
- It needs a legal basis - where is the line between Marklin's Intellectual Property and enthusiastic hobbyists?
- It needs a financial basis - even if it operates on a volunteer basis, there is still web-hosting to fund.



All valid questions and I will evaluate open source solutions as well. It is easier for me to leverage my knowledge of Microsoft solutions, especially SQL Server databases, and .Net web programming since I deal with that technology on a daily basis at work. Still, there are good arguments to try and use OS solutions. Since the main focus of the project deals with Marklin I had planned to localize all text into English and German. I wouldn't be able to do any of the translating, but the mechanisms for localizing all text into Deutsch would be integral to the final solution. Images would be able to be attached to items, but initially, probably not videos since bandwidth would be prohibitive. YouTube links could be stored in the database as a viable alternative to hosting the videos on the website. Legal basis ? I'll probably need to learn what actually is considered Marklin IP. I had never considered that creating a list of M products could violate copyright, but best to investigate this aspect sooner than later. Funding? - Yes there is a fixed cost for web-hosting. I suppose that I could create a PayPal donate button to receive contributions from the M community, but to encourage participation, at least in the early stages, I would have to bank the costs. I can get reduced rates from ISP's that I deal with through my employment.
Thanks again for your comments.
Offline kamstutz  
#7 Posted : 18 June 2016 06:27:40(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
So am I a dreamer to think something like this would work?
This idea does work. It already works under http://gleiswarze.de
The UI is German only, but otherwise it sounds much like your description.

So maybe just contact Achim and discuss the options to add an English UI.



Tom - The gleiswarze database is fantastic and includes other brands as well as M. Please let me know Achim's user name in the forums and I'll reach out to him. Thanks for the comments.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 19 June 2016 23:16:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Please let me know Achim's user name in the forums and I'll reach out to him.
He put his e-mail address on his site, see here:
http://mobadb.gleiswarze.de/site/impressum.php

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline grnwtrs  
#9 Posted : 20 June 2016 02:29:23(UTC)
grnwtrs

United States   
Joined: 18/06/2005(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: El Sobrante, California
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I think that a better approach would be to Open Source the end product.. Use something like OpenOffice/Libre Office or even a HTML5/CSS3 web-based solution. Of course, it needs an ongoing strategy..
- How do we keep the development and data gathering going?
- As an International product how we ensure equal access to the product regardless of a person's first language (mine is English, but those guys over the pond can't spell)?
- Standards around image sizes - will video be acceptable?
- It needs a legal basis - where is the line between Marklin's Intellectual Property and enthusiastic hobbyists?
- It needs a financial basis - even if it operates on a volunteer basis, there is still web-hosting to fund.




I sure like the open source stuff. When I was learning DB3, about 1990, I did some of this stuff.
Ended up with about 25 fields, not all used for all records, and sure wished I had paid more attention to
the Marklin catalogs. Now I have to find a compatible program in msft to convert my existing database

The catalogs would have made a significant difference in the classifications of my meager collection. Crying

But once I started I didn't look back, as there are a bunch of guys, especially on this list, have a structure
much much better laid out than mine, but I dug myself in a big hole, and now its to late/big to get out!!

Good luck to all, and be sure to have lots of funLaugh

Best regards,
gene

Offline kamstutz  
#10 Posted : 20 June 2016 02:44:26(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Please let me know Achim's user name in the forums and I'll reach out to him.
He put his e-mail address on his site, see here:
http://mobadb.gleiswarze.de/site/impressum.php



Thanks Tom. Today I sent an email to Achim introducing myself and my "crazy" dream project. :)
Offline kamstutz  
#11 Posted : 20 June 2016 02:50:15(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: grnwtrs Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I think that a better approach would be to Open Source the end product.. Use something like OpenOffice/Libre Office or even a HTML5/CSS3 web-based solution. Of course, it needs an ongoing strategy..
- How do we keep the development and data gathering going?
- As an International product how we ensure equal access to the product regardless of a person's first language (mine is English, but those guys over the pond can't spell)?
- Standards around image sizes - will video be acceptable?
- It needs a legal basis - where is the line between Marklin's Intellectual Property and enthusiastic hobbyists?
- It needs a financial basis - even if it operates on a volunteer basis, there is still web-hosting to fund.




I sure like the open source stuff. When I was learning DB3, about 1990, I did some of this stuff.
Ended up with about 25 fields, not all used for all records, and sure wished I had paid more attention to
the Marklin catalogs. Now I have to find a compatible program in msft to convert my existing database

The catalogs would have made a significant difference in the classifications of my meager collection. Crying

But once I started I didn't look back, as there are a bunch of guys, especially on this list, have a structure
much much better laid out than mine, but I dug myself in a big hole, and now its to late/big to get out!!

Good luck to all, and be sure to have lots of funLaugh

Best regards,
gene



Gene - Please post the fields that you currently use in your existing database solution. If not already incorporated into our schema, we can add them in. I'm trying to get a sampling of the fields needed. You can leave out the obvious ones that everyone uses - such as Article number etc, but if some other fields are useful to you then they would be useful to other collectores as well.
Offline kamstutz  
#12 Posted : 20 June 2016 03:22:06(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
So now we come to the discussion that several members have brought to my attention - that being "What is my collection worth?" While it's easy to register what you "paid" for something onto the database, the "worth" value is a bit more complicated.

In order to have an automated calculation for a collection's worth in a communtiy database would require that users update the "current sold price" field in the database for the specific item in the collection. Although you could use Koll's value I believe that the only true current value is the last "sold" price on auction websites (mainly eBay). Ebay has a developer's API which allows an eBay software developer to hook into their system to surface information (export), but they have very strict restrictions in place to prohibit anyone from querying and storing selling prices, and as a user of the API you accept their rules which state that you cannot use their services to store this information for any purpose whatsoever. The API really exists to help promote the items that eBay sells and not to support some 3rd party application. If you have used eBay's search you will also notice that their historical sales results do not go back further than 2 months. It is very clear that eBay does not approve of storing the exact data that we need to determine the value of our collections. So... the option as I see it would be for the community to populate into the community database the selling prices of the items they are interested in so as to allow calculations of worth. I'm not 100% sure, but it might even be against the eBay website use rules to store their information in other systems even if it was legally obtained when it was available on eBays website. As per eBay's useage policy

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html

Using eBay

In connection with using or accessing the Services you will not:
...
reproduce, perform, display, distribute, reverse engineer, or prepare derivative works from content that belongs to or is licensed to eBay, or that comes from the Services and belongs to another eBay user or to a third party including works covered by any copyrights, trademark, patent, or other intellectual property right, except with prior express permission of eBay and/or any other party holding the right to license such use;


Having the current selling prices (not the retail price) of Marklin items would allow a community database system to accurately calculate a collection's worth. If a system could do this then I'm sure that feature alone would provide motivation for a collector to index his/her collection into the community database. Do members think that, based on the above useage policy, there would be legal issues with eBay if this sales data was added to the database ? Is this even a concern ?
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