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Offline analogmike  
#1 Posted : 07 May 2016 17:05:58(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 736
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Hello boys,
Time to rebuild my old trafos BEFORE I use them.
I will be adding 3-wire with ground.
I have searched the forum but cannot find what to do with the circuit breaker.
It appears to be in good working order but I need to know if I should replace it with an upgraded unit if there is such a thing?

Thanx, Mikey

breaker 001.JPG
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
Offline NS1200  
#2 Posted : 07 May 2016 18:09:58(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
My advice: never mess with old trafo's!
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 08 May 2016 09:40:59(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
Hello boys,
Time to rebuild my old trafos BEFORE I use them.
I will be adding 3-wire with ground.
I have searched the forum but cannot find what to do with the circuit breaker.
It appears to be in good working order but I need to know if I should replace it with an upgraded unit if there is such a thing?

Thanx, Mikey



Hi Mikey,

You should probably begin with this thread from 2013... "Older Metal Transformer Danger"

And it is good that you have asked here before going ahead.

Because we do not know your skill level, I am going to assume that you intend to take these Trafos to a qualified electrician or appliance technician, but that you want to assist him/(her) as much as possible - right ?? The correct answer is "yes of course that's what I'm going to do" ThumpUp

Ok, now that we know this is going to be handled safely, there is no real difficulty in undertaking the safety upgrade on these older transformers.

Most important is that you replace the Line-cord. Personally, as you will see from the above linked article, I prefer to use moulded cables as would be used in most types of Computers, Printers etc but you can of course make your own cable and wire your own preferred plug on, such as a tap-on type plug.

With regard to the overload cutout, this is a simple thermal device mainly designed to cut power in the event of a short-circuit. I have never known one to fail and you should be able to re-use the existing one quite safely. Be aware that the connections to the thermal switch are soldered so this standard of workmanship will need to be maintained. The Trafos are actually double-insulated and do not have an earth ex-factory but I think it wise to add the earth to the case. And on top of that, if you still had concerns about these older Trafos then you could simply ensure you use a power outlet protected with an RCD.

I always wire my re-works so that the Phase connector is the one that goes through the cutout switch. Some countries make that easy to maintain because our wall-plugs can only go one way whereas in some other countries they are reversible which can also give you the undesirable problem of having two or more Transformers on the same layout out of phase with each other and this is a very dangerous situation indeed.

If possible, take this opportunity to determine a common polarity for your transformers and when you wire them make sure you mark or label the wall plug in such a way that they are always plugged in the same orientation - ie a green mark visible on the top of the plug and a red one on the bottom so if one is reversed you can tell at a glance that it is wrong.

I am sure this information will help your qualified person a great deal. Cool

PS; I've moved this thread to 'Collectors Corner' because of the age of the Trafo's and because NMR is not the right place for this topic.

Regards

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline analogmike  
#4 Posted : 09 May 2016 13:54:47(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 736
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Thanks for the advice guys. Much appreciated.
Here's what I wound up doing.
The skill level around here runs fairly high so I was confident to do the upgrade safely.
The problem I encountered was with the small brass eye which gets the hot wire soldered to it. To me it looked to small to survive another soldering job so I made a new one. When I went to attach it to the circuit breaker I stripped the threads in the breakerCursing .
It was at this point when a little voice (probably NS1200) said to me "Hey stupid, get a new plastic trafo". They're all over the place and cheap too!
So I closed it up and put it back on the shelfFlapper .
After reading the thread where Marco got whacked by his trafo, I remained leery of those metal cases. No mater how much ground they had.
Plastic is good. I have two blue plastic ones in the collection already so when I replace all the metal ones my control panel will have a more uniform appearance.

Thanks again, Mikey
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by analogmike
Offline NS1200  
#5 Posted : 09 May 2016 14:12:51(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
You have made a wise decision.

I have a holy respect for everything working on 230 VAC and beyond.
Even experienced guys working at high power transformerstations sometimes mix up cables and do not live to tell.

Thanks for listening to my little voice.

Paul
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline cookee_nz  
#6 Posted : 10 May 2016 05:19:15(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the advice guys. Much appreciated.
Here's what I wound up doing.
The skill level around here runs fairly high so I was confident to do the upgrade safely.
The problem I encountered was with the small brass eye which gets the hot wire soldered to it. To me it looked to small to survive another soldering job so I made a new one. When I went to attach it to the circuit breaker I stripped the threads in the breakerCursing .
It was at this point when a little voice (probably NS1200) said to me "Hey stupid, get a new plastic trafo". They're all over the place and cheap too!
So I closed it up and put it back on the shelfFlapper .
After reading the thread where Marco got whacked by his trafo, I remained leery of those metal cases. No mater how much ground they had.
Plastic is good. I have two blue plastic ones in the collection already so when I replace all the metal ones my control panel will have a more uniform appearance.

Thanks again, Mikey


As you can tell Mikey (and others), there is no 'right or wrong' answer to this question, it's really up to the individual what they feel comfortable with.

I certainly agree with you that a bank of matching modern-style Trafos looks great, whether they are white or the older blue.

I've never had a problem with stripped cutout-switch threads, that seems very unusual, infact I can't recall even seeing one with that style.

Usually the ones I see are the older 280A style and these have the wires directly soldered into the copper eyelets in the breaker. I think the old 10va Trafo's are probably not worth doing anything with unless you already had them and wanted a bunch for controlling lighting circuits etc. Personally I dislike doing those ones, they are hard to get apart and a pain to work on.

On any Trafo if any internal parts break then it's almost always a write-off, useful only for other parts or scrap-metal.

But there are many like myself who enjoy keeping old technology working and provided the workmanship is to a high standard AND all current safety requirements are maintained there is a lot of satisfaction to be gained.

For you, replacement seemed the smart move. Maybe for someone else repair is more desirable Cool

Regards

Cookee
NZ

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline analogmike  
#7 Posted : 10 May 2016 12:46:44(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 736
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Thanks Cookee, You win some and you loose some. The trafo thinks he won but in the long run I did. It was either him or me.
Now it's back to the layout! Stay tuned. I got something really big coming up.
Mikey
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 15 May 2016 10:24:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,631
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Cookee, You win some and you loose some. The trafo thinks he won but in the long run I did. It was either him or me.
Now it's back to the layout! Stay tuned. I got something really big coming up.
Mikey


thanks God we haven't lost you Huh Scared ThumpUp OhMyGod

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline analogmike  
#9 Posted : 16 May 2016 02:36:37(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 736
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
thank you sir
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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