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Offline dickinsonj  
#1 Posted : 20 January 2016 21:39:56(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
The circuit board in my 3611 , Beautiful Lady of Wurttemberg - Wurttemberg "C" has failed, which prevents me from running one of my most beautiful locomotives. The parts list calls this out as "Leiterplatte - Bestell-Nr. 21 141".

I am trying to determine if a replacement board is available or if it could be upgraded to MFX with sound. There are no longer any Marklin dealers anywhere near to me and I would most likely be attempting the repair myself. Confused

I have bought Marklin items online but I can't find anyone that sells this type of component, even if I was sure what the most appropriate replacement or upgrade might be.

Thanks in advance for any information regarding what my options are at this point.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline French_Fabrice  
#2 Posted : 20 January 2016 22:26:23(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,476
Location: Lyon, France
Hi,

I know there is a PCB for 3311 here: http://luessi.ch/shop/ca...ath=2&products_id=54

It's the only thing I know...
Hope this fits with your needs...

Cheers
Fabrice
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
Offline sgtb  
#3 Posted : 21 January 2016 19:53:36(UTC)
sgtb

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Central Ohio
Hello

I finally found a reason to post. I'm also from Columbus. I convert all my own locs to ESU and know several dealers that i order from. If you need help pm me.
Bob
Offline Webmaster  
#4 Posted : 21 January 2016 20:09:49(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Bob, I am sure we are many who would like to know so it would be preferred if the knowledge is shared...Wink

I myself have got 2 Luessi boards for conversion of my 35/6/11 & 3613 to plain mfx without sound.
When time allows... BigGrin
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline sgtb  
#5 Posted : 21 January 2016 21:42:26(UTC)
sgtb

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Central Ohio
Hi Juhan, you are so right. There are not to many websites out there that show you how to repair or convert the older Marklin to digital. Some of the sites still show the old delta controls. My wive just bought me the 3100 Berlin set for Christmas from e bay and they are stuck solid from the old oil. I ordered my ESU parts to convert them from RJF trains and will post some pictures on how i do it. We do have a Marklin dealer in Columbus, Robbies Hobbies, but its just new items.BigGrin
Offline dickinsonj  
#6 Posted : 22 January 2016 20:13:25(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Thanks for the replies.

I agree - there is a definite lack of good how-to's for digital conversions. I think a lot of people would benefit from seeing pictures of how you do the conversions Bob. I have done several older Marklin locomotives and they were not too difficult, because they were so simple - just the motor and the one function for the lights.

The model 3611 has a can motor and a worm drive. Marklin claims these motors need a specific decoder to function properly. In my model there is a large circuit board in the tender, which is what has failed. I think what I have is the first generation Marklin high efficiency propulsion and if it can be replaced by a decoder like #60905 it would be a pretty straight forward conversion. I know that Marklin has stopped making item #60905, but it is still available online. It seems like it might replace the large circuit board in my 3611 but I am not sure if it is compatible. When I get the chance I will post a link to some pictures. Of course MFX with sound would be even better but I don't know if it is compatible with this motor and drive train.

Bob. It is good to hear from someone so close by. I will PM you when I get closer to figuring out what to do and what I might need help with. I have three older locomotives that I converted to first generation digital, with just one function. The rest are all at least 10 years old and were alway digital, using the MM format. I know that there are other options, but I am not at all familiar with them. It is good to hear that Robbies is still around. When I last checked on dealers 6-7 years ago no one was willing to stock Marklin because they were in bankruptcy. I will have to check them out again although I know they can't help with a repair.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 22 January 2016 20:28:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,263
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Jim,

Welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Of course MFX with sound would be even better but I don't know if it is compatible with this motor and drive train.
The PWM frequency of the 60902 is too low for coreless motors with bell-shaped armatures, so the 60905 had to be used for those.
All current decoders support high PWM frequencies and are suitable for coreless motors.
In the days of the 6090 decoder, locos with coreless motors didn't have load regulation.

Many old Märklin locos have decoder PCBs that were made specifically for that type of loco. If those boards also hold the lights then it will be difficult to mount a different decoder.
No advantage to install a 60905. I'd rather get a current decoder with 21MTC socket.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Ross  
#8 Posted : 22 January 2016 21:43:14(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 872
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Jim,

I have had this problem and have improved the running using a LokPilot v4.0 decoder.
The article below describes how I did it.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~.../pdf/3611_3614_telex.pdf

You will see I used the switchable functions to control a rear Telex coupler and have a cabin light.

I hope the article will give you some ideas how to improve your loco.
Ross
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Ross
Offline dickinsonj  
#9 Posted : 22 January 2016 23:00:22(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Jim,

Welcome to the forum.

The PWM frequency of the 60902 is too low for coreless motors with bell-shaped armatures, so the 60905 had to be used for those.
All current decoders support high PWM frequencies and are suitable for coreless motors.
In the days of the 6090 decoder, locos with coreless motors didn't have load regulation.

Many old Märklin locos have decoder PCBs that were made specifically for that type of loco. If those boards also hold the lights then it will be difficult to mount a different decoder.
No advantage to install a 60905. I'd rather get a current decoder with 21MTC socket.


Thanks Tom - that is good information. It sounds like I could use any current decoder with this coreless motor, which was one of my biggest questions. It does have a PCB that was custom made for this loco, but the lights are not part of that board, so it seems like a new decoder is workable. I will do some more investigation on the 21 MTC socket and its advantages.

My first generation Marklin digital controls failed a while ago and I only bought a CS2 last year. I am just now getting my locos all checked out, so hopefully I will be posting here more in the future. Up until now I have only had locos with MM decoders and I unfortunately have a lot to learn about my other options.

This forum is a great source of info and I appreciate your input.

Jim
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#10 Posted : 22 January 2016 23:03:40(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim,

I have had this problem and have improved the running using a LokPilot v4.0 decoder.
The article below describes how I did it.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~.../pdf/3611_3614_telex.pdf

You will see I used the switchable functions to control a rear Telex coupler and have a cabin light.

I hope the article will give you some ideas how to improve your loco.


Thanks Ross - that is a very good resource. I am starting to feel like I can figure out what my best options are and get this loco back on track!

Jim
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline sgtb  
#11 Posted : 23 January 2016 06:13:44(UTC)
sgtb

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Central Ohio
Hi Jim, ya we live next door compared to how far our other members are. Just to let you know there is another marklin guy here in town. Rob at Robbies got us together and I helped get his dads old layout set up at his house.

My wife blames this forum for me going in debt, I was happy putting my 70's train on the dining room table oil and run them for the kids then pack it back up, then I saw the digital age. I"m still m track and all but one were old analog and just started converting them over last two years when I get time. Ross's site and Rivers Videos were the first sites I saw and convinced me to convert. And credit to all the others on this forum with their tips and tricks.


Bob
Offline dickinsonj  
#12 Posted : 23 January 2016 16:11:45(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: sgtb Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim, ya we live next door compared to how far our other members are. Just to let you know there is another marklin guy here in town. Rob at Robbies got us together and I helped get his dads old layout set up at his house.

My wife blames this forum for me going in debt, I was happy putting my 70's train on the dining room table oil and run them for the kids then pack it back up, then I saw the digital age. I"m still m track and all but one were old analog and just started converting them over last two years when I get time. Ross's site and Rivers Videos were the first sites I saw and convinced me to convert. And credit to all the others on this forum with their tips and tricks.


Bob


Hi Bob,

It is good to know that there are other Marklin guys in our area. I know that I am better off financially when mine are packed up and out of sight! That was the case for me for 8-10 years until I decided to spend the money on a CS2 last year.

I just set up a temporary layout which takes over the floor in a spare bedroom. Most of my track is C track, which is another problem, since a number of my older C track sections have broken the small pieces that keep them together. I am deciding right now whether to set them up this year or not. Of course as soon as I do that I will start shopping for more locos and there goes the budget! Also I could use more turnouts and more C track - I'm not sure that part ever ends until the money runs out!

First I need to find the time to dig into Ross's resource and decide the best way to fix my 3611. It is a beautiful model and well worth some investment of time and money. Ultimately I have some older locos that need new motors and electronics since they run so poorly anymore, especially compared to the newer locos.

Jim
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Ross  
#13 Posted : 24 January 2016 21:57:25(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 872
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Jim,

I'm glad you liked my effort as a resource. BigGrin



Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim,

Thanks Ross - that is a very good resource. I am starting to feel like I can figure out what my best options are and get this loco back on track!

Jim


Ross
Offline dickinsonj  
#14 Posted : 25 January 2016 21:13:14(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim,
I'm glad you liked my effort as a resource. BigGrin


Ross - I have had more time now to read it in detail, and it is so thorough - I am very impressed. Thanks so much for your post!

I was hoping for some general digital information and you provided me with a step by step process for exactly what my 3611 needs! I would never have known that the LED lights needed to have resistors added, for instance.

I don't feel like I have the hands on electrical fabrication experience that I need to do it yet. I need to better understand setting up a Vero board and using a LokProgrammer, among other things. I expect that there is a lot of information out there for the LokPilot, which seems to be a very popular choice. I have been reading the other useful stuff on your site though and maybe I will get there in time.

Both of your upgrades are very good choices - the cab light is cool and the telex coupler is great to have, especially for how you intend to use them.

Thanks Again,

Jim

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#15 Posted : 30 January 2016 18:47:19(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
I know there is a PCB for 3311 here: http://luessi.ch/shop/ca...ath=2&products_id=54

Cheers
Fabrice


Fabrice - For some reason I did not follow your link until I talked to my new friend Bob (sgtb) today. He thought it was a great solution for a novice such as myself and I realized I had forgotten to ever check out the link you posted.

You are right - it is exactly what I need! I have already ordered it and now I just need to pick out an 8 pin decoder and I should be on my way.

I will post again after I get my 3611 back up and running again.

Thanks so much for your advice .

Jim
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline dickinsonj  
#16 Posted : 11 April 2016 19:46:29(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
I know there is a PCB for 3311 here: http://luessi.ch/shop/ca...ath=2&products_id=54

Cheers
Fabrice


I wanted to update this thread since I have now completed this repair and it turned out very well.

I bought the Luessi PCB which was easy to install. I only needed to solder the original wiring from the old PCB to the Luessi PCB, since it fits perfectly in the old PCB location without any modifications. Thanks for helping me find that Fabrice.

I used an 8-pin LokPilot V4.0 and I set the CV's to the values that tjones obtained for his 3511 by letting the decoder set itself using the CV54=0 method. Thanks for your input on those values, which seem perfect for my 3611 too. I had intended to try tuning it using some of the values ESU provides for that motor but I really don't see how it could run any better than it does now.

This was my first digital repair and now I look forward to bringing the rest of my older loks up to modern standards. I would never have known where to even begin without the help I got from multiple people here on this forum!

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline tjones  
#17 Posted : 19 October 2016 10:52:12(UTC)
tjones


Joined: 06/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 26
Glad it worked as easy for you as it did for me! They are some of the nicest loco's I have. My current project: finding a new motor and 'gearbox' (the part with all the cogwheels the motor is bolted onto) for one 3311 i got my hands on for cheap.

Problem is Marklin doesn't supply either motor or gearbox anymore and offers on ebay are few and far between. But one day she will also run again ;-)
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