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Offline Hackcell  
#1 Posted : 07 June 2015 22:29:18(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 520
Hi,

Is it possible to apply track power thru the middle terminal of a m84 port and using the K84 double output on the CS2 decide if the track power ca go out from either the first or the third output?

Thanks in advance!

Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 08 June 2015 00:02:35(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,378
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

Is it possible to apply track power thru the middle terminal of a m84 port and using the K84 double output on the CS2 decide if the track power ca go out from either the first or the third output?


There appears to be some confusion in your question.

If you were wanting to emulate the k84 double output you are usually doing so in order to provide a pair of wires to something like a DC motor and to allow the reversal of polarity. The m84 would also require a pair (two) addresses to achieve this. This is because both the k84 and m84 represent SPDT switches

What might be acceptable is to use a single port (i.e. not the k84 double output setup of the CS2) with some external wiring (and diodes).
Note: this might not be the best solution for your type of motor (not as smooth as it could be and/or noisy).
UserPostedImage
for smoothnes you could modify to ...
UserPostedImage
using a single k84/m84 output for this means that there is no "off" mode - the motor is either turning CW or CCW - this is fine for motors with limit switches or "stall" devices like the Circuitron Tortoise device.
Qualification with limitations. the m84 is not really a SPDT port. It is made up of 2xSPST switches. The m84 MAY be put into a mode whereby you can "toggle" each switch individually. Right now Marklin have not provided a means to specifically turn a single relay on or off. what this means is that if you toggle both ports off the motor will stop (good) but if you happen to toggle both ports on you get sparks (not good)

And if you wanted another option , then using a m83 (60831) and a 60821 is specifically designed for this provided the motor in question tolerates PWM and draws less than 500mA.
UserPostedImage
Contrary to the "allways on" mode of a single port k84/m84 implimentation - the m83/60821 solution will only turn on for a fixed period of time.
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Hackcell  
#3 Posted : 08 June 2015 01:58:16(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 520
Hello,

What I want to do is to connect a braking module to the M84 inputs. Using 2 ports for the Braking area and 2 for the stop area. The goal is to try to have a bi-directional braking module. If a s88 triggers an order, the m84 should the power down both isolated tracks (to avoid a circuit) and then power up either one or the another outputs, swaping the Brake/Stop outputs between the 2 isolated tracks.

Evertyhing depents if it is feasible to use the m84 to swap the outputs.

Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline siroljuk  
#4 Posted : 05 July 2015 12:03:46(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 370
Hello everyone.

Does anyone know from where I could get circuit diagram of some interesting new devices of Märklin.

m84, m83, k84 and k83. I am interested in how are outputs of those devices connected.

Peter wrote in this thread:

"Qualification with limitations. the m84 is not really a SPDT port. It is made up of 2xSPST switches. The m84 MAY be put into a mode whereby you can "toggle" each switch individually. Right now Marklin have not provided a means to specifically turn a single relay on or off. what this means is that if you toggle both ports off the motor will stop (good) but if you happen to toggle both ports on you get sparks (not good)"

This is very important information at least for me. In particular I´m interested in m84´s outputs for signal and how they might be connected related with screw-outputs( if there is any).

Then of course I´m interested in 72442 signalmodule´s circuit diagram. ( know also as bremsmodul)

My target here is to avoid short circuits when I do some experimental work with these modules. I know for what purpose these are made for and of course I have red all instructions, but still it would be nice to know what you really can do with them.

I got few weeks ago new m84 and m83. Then I have L88 and I have found them very workable.

I am dreaming to make from old keyboard 6040 workable keyboard for L88 matrix. But I don´t realize how to open 6040 so that it would not break down.

Have somebody ideas how to open it?

I am still studying CS2´s capabilities and possible future features mainly how to program and take all possibilities into daily use.

Have you all Happy Training

Regards

Jukka

Edited by user 05 July 2015 16:26:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

User is suspended until 30/01/2021 11:18:10(UTC) Goofy  
#5 Posted : 05 July 2015 15:31:49(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,331
Deleted
User is suspended until 30/01/2021 11:18:10(UTC) Goofy  
#6 Posted : 05 July 2015 15:37:06(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,331
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post


What might be acceptable is to use a single port (i.e. not the k84 double output setup of the CS2) with some external wiring (and diodes).
Note: this might not be the best solution for your type of motor (not as smooth as it could be and/or noisy).
UserPostedImage
for smoothnes you could modify to ...
UserPostedImage


I did tested in both way with half wave power with the diodes and straight power(dc).
Both of it present same noise and smooth drive.

User is suspended until 30/01/2021 11:18:10(UTC) Goofy  
#7 Posted : 05 July 2015 15:42:33(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,331
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

What I want to do is to connect a braking module to the M84 inputs. Using 2 ports for the Braking area and 2 for the stop area. The goal is to try to have a bi-directional braking module. If a s88 triggers an order, the m84 should the power down both isolated tracks (to avoid a circuit) and then power up either one or the another outputs, swaping the Brake/Stop outputs between the 2 isolated tracks.

Evertyhing depents if it is feasible to use the m84 to swap the outputs.



The m84 do have two way of connections,by control signals and isolated tracks.
The brake generator must been wired to the track,by control brake,while to control isolated track from the m84.
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