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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 14 June 2014 11:43:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
I need help... Blushing
When i shall adjust value in CV50 adress,the MS2 shows up in two steps!?
How shall i change value when info in the manual decoder list says:Bit 0 to 3

CV50
Bit 0:Analog AC off=0/Analog AC on=1
Bit 1:Analog DC off=0/Analog DC on=1
Bit 2:MM off=0/MM on=1
Bit 3:mfx off=0/mfx on=1

In the MS2 is stand only two different steps and shows 0-255 steps. ?
So the question is:How do i adjust to program bits to zero?
I want only DCC protocol in the sound decoder.
CS3...H0...
Offline biedmatt  
#2 Posted : 14 June 2014 12:24:41(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Bit 2 should be DCC not MM. I do not believe you can turn off MM in Marklin decoders. The instructions have a typo error, but the part that says you may enter a value of 0-15 helps clear it up. Their instructions show values of 0 and 1 for each bit. Add them all up and you will not get to the max value of 15, just 4. Plus each possible summation will not produce a unique value.

Bit 0 (AC) values are 0 and 1. Bit 1 (DC) values are 0 and 2. Bit 2 (DCC) values are 0 and 4. Bit 3 (MFX) values are 0 and 8. Sum up all bit values and you can get a max sum of 15. Since each bit is a binary value, any summation would be a unique value and the decoder will understand what you desire. So for just DCC, enter 4 at CV50.

Edit: Or scrap them and buy a LokProgrammer and ESU V4s.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline French_Fabrice  
#3 Posted : 14 June 2014 12:29:32(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,388
Location: Lyon, France
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I need help... Blushing
When i shall adjust value in CV50 adress,the MS2 shows up in two steps!?
How shall i change value when info in the manual decoder list says:Bit 0 to 3

CV50
Bit 0:Analog AC off=0/Analog AC on=1
Bit 1:Analog DC off=0/Analog DC on=1
Bit 2:MM off=0/MM on=1
Bit 3:mfx off=0/mfx on=1

In the MS2 is stand only two different steps and shows 0-255 steps. ?
So the question is:How do i adjust to program bits to zero?
I want only DCC protocol in the sound decoder.


Hi Anders,

Well, a bit of base 2 arithmetic...

Bit0= 2^0 = 1 (decimal) when set
Bit1= 2^1 = 2 (decimal) when set
Bit2= 2^2 = 4 (decimal) when set
Bit3= 2^3 = 8 (decimal) when set
...
Bit7= 2^7 = 128 (decimal) when set

Then you have to do an addition depending of the settings of bits linked to your goal...
Examples:
-you want to set bit 0 to 1 AND bit 2 to 1; all other bits are set to 0 -> (2^0+2^2) = 1 + 4 = 5
-you want to set bit 1 to 1 AND bit 3 to 1; all other bits are set to 0 -> (2^1+2^3) = 2 + 8 = 10
-you want to have all 8 bits to 0 -> 0 decimal
-if all the bits you are interested to manage are between bit0 and bit3 inclusive, then the decimal range is between 0 (0+0+0+0) and 15 (1+2+4+8) inclusive

cheers
fabrice
Offline Renato  
#4 Posted : 14 June 2014 15:08:14(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Hi,

Only for curiosity (as I do not have DCC):

CV50
Bit 0:Analog AC off=0/Analog AC on=1
Bit 1:Analog DC off=0/Analog DC on=1
Bit 2:MM off=0/MM on=1
Bit 3:mfx off=0/mfx on=1

My choises would be as follows:

Bit 0:Analog AC off=0
Bit 1:Analog DC off=0
Bit 2:MM off=0 otherwise the MM protocol should be enabled ?
Bit 3:mfx off=0

So I would put 0 in CV50 or am I thinking wrong?

Cheers

Renato
Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 14 June 2014 15:38:17(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: Renato Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

Only for curiosity (as I do not have DCC):

CV50
Bit 0:Analog AC off=0/Analog AC on=1
Bit 1:Analog DC off=0/Analog DC on=1
Bit 2:MM off=0/MM on=1
Bit 3:mfx off=0/mfx on=1

My choises would be as follows:

Bit 0:Analog AC off=0
Bit 1:Analog DC off=0
Bit 2:MM off=0 otherwise the MM protocol should be enabled ?
Bit 3:mfx off=0

So I would put 0 in CV50 or am I thinking wrong?

Cheers

Renato


I think you have right,if we shall read like that to set 0 as value.
But the problem is MS2...it shows 2 different step to enable or change value of CV50.
As standard what my decoder is showing like this:
Step 1: 50 in value
Step 2: 255 in value

This is crazy!
If i use Lenz system,i can read bits in all CV adresses,while with MS2 i can´t...!!

CS3...H0...
Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 14 June 2014 15:59:29(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
I´m not really sure,if i did correct with the MS2...
I go to CV adresses,but i wonder now if i should go to PoM instead.
Any idea...?
CS3...H0...
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 14 June 2014 18:50:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When i shall adjust value in CV50 adress,the MS2 shows up in two steps!?
To get DCC only, the value would be 0.

I presume the question is about your new Trix loco. AFAIK you cannot disable mfx with those decoders (even though the loco manual may indicate otherwise).

I wouldn't use PoM if the loco is the only loco on the track. With normal CV programming the MS2 will read the current value before you set a new value.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Lollo  
#8 Posted : 14 June 2014 23:23:36(UTC)
Lollo

New Zealand   
Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 365

Hi all,

The only protocol that can not be disabled is DCC. As mentioned previously, writing 0 in CV 50 disables all other protocols including mfx.
I only run my decoders in DCC format as well. I find the decoder programming very restricted under mfx/MM prorocols, and I like to tweak my decoders the way I want.

Cheers,
Brian.
Brian
Yaasan's Desktop Station/Railuino & Marklin MS2, DB Era III/IV Diesel & Steam, ESU Loksound/Lokpilot & Lokprogrammer, Marklin mSD, Tam Valley Depot Octopus III Servo Controller.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Lollo
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 14 June 2014 23:31:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Lollo Go to Quoted Post
The only protocol that can not be disabled is DCC.
Which decoder?

With mLD and mSD any protocol can be disabled: MM, mfx, DCC. You cannot disable all three at the same time, but any combinations of two protocols can be disabled.

But if you buy a loco from Märklin or Trix, then you cannot disable any protocol with that decoder AFAIK.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 15 June 2014 08:12:46(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lollo Go to Quoted Post
The only protocol that can not be disabled is DCC.
Which decoder?

With mLD and mSD any protocol can be disabled: MM, mfx, DCC. You cannot disable all three at the same time, but any combinations of two protocols can be disabled.

But if you buy a loco from Märklin or Trix, then you cannot disable any protocol with that decoder AFAIK.


Are you sure Tom?
In the manual of decoders CV list,it stand you cannot disable DCC protocol,but mfx and MM you can do that.
But this is when you did choised DCC protocol to drive it.
I did toke pictures of the locomotiv manual.



Goofy attached the following image(s):
DSC_0008.JPG
DSC_0005.JPG
DSC_0006.JPG
DSC_0007.JPG
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Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 15 June 2014 08:16:28(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
A notice about last picture...
It don´t stand CV50 adress.
CS3...H0...
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 15 June 2014 08:32:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It don´t stand CV50 adress.
AFAIK there are Trix models where they forgot to remove CV 50 from the manual.
So with your loco it seems they removed CV 50 from both the decoder and the manual. Hardly anything to complain about.

When the loco gets power it ignores DCC commands for about two seconds, listening to mfx signals only.
After about two seconds without any mfx commands, it will obey to DCC commands.

To get rid of this delay, people want to disable mfx in the decoder. But they can not.
So if you buy a Trix loco and don't use mfx, either live with procrastinating decoder. Or replace the decoder. Or choose a brand that still sells analogue locos - or locos with better decoders.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 15 June 2014 08:41:30(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
But in the second picture,it stand Märklin recommend deactivating few protocols.
I want to disable unnecessary protocols and it´s mfx and MM.
Also analog protocols must been disable.
It´s very strange,that Märklin recommend to disable protocols in the CV50 adress,but it don´t stand in the locos manual about CV50 adress.
CS3...H0...
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 15 June 2014 09:26:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It´s very strange,that Märklin recommend to disable protocols in the CV50 adress,but it don´t stand in the locos manual about CV50 adress.
Not really: they took the manual of the fully featured decoder, removed some paragraphs - and quickly had the manual for the crippled decoder.
They should have removed or re-written some of the remaining paragraphs (but time is money).

There is no MM protocol in the decoder. AC probably is not supported either.

You can set CV 50 to the value 0 and see whether it makes any difference.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 15 June 2014 10:00:57(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Delete

Edited by user 15 June 2014 16:04:40(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 15 June 2014 16:06:45(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

There is no MM protocol in the decoder. AC probably is not supported either.



Märklin are verified decoder as multiprotocol decoder.

CS3...H0...
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 15 June 2014 17:45:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Märklin are verified decoder as multiprotocol decoder.
Two protocols (mfx and DCC) is multi-protocol. Did they confirm MM protocol for the decoder?

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 15 June 2014 18:25:00(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Märklin are verified decoder as multiprotocol decoder.
Two protocols (mfx and DCC) is multi-protocol. Did they confirm MM protocol for the decoder?



It stand like this fx(MM).

CS3...H0...
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 15 June 2014 21:00:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It stand like this fx(MM).
Where? Not on the manual pages you're showing above.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#20 Posted : 16 June 2014 05:41:12(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
It stands in the decoders CV list at Märklins homepage,by click on the technology information.
As Märklin did also verified in the locos manual,you can disable protocols function.
CS3...H0...
Offline H0  
#21 Posted : 16 June 2014 07:54:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It stands in the decoders CV list at Märklins homepage,by click on the technology information.
As Märklin did also verified in the locos manual,you can disable protocols function.
You have missed an important aspect: the almost but not quite complete CV list is for uncrippled decoders sold separately.
The factory-installed loco decoders have been "economised" (or crippled) and do not support all protocols and all CVs that are listed on the site.

I know from own experience that decoders that come with M* locos do not allow to disable any protocols.
I know from hearsay that decoders that come with Trix locos do not allow to disable any protocols.

The loco decoders support more CVs than the manual shows. The almost but not quite complete list on the site is a good source of information for undocumented CVs, but some CVs will have no effect.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#22 Posted : 16 June 2014 09:23:05(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
As i did wrote before Tom...Märklin recommend deactivating protocols by use CV 50.
You can read that in second picture.
I would saying,that Märklin did missed to add CV 50 in the list of the locos manual.
CS3...H0...
Offline H0  
#23 Posted : 16 June 2014 09:26:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I would saying,that Märklin did missed to add CV 50 in the list of the locos manual.
I would say (and I already wrote it) that they forgot to remove that passage from the loco manual.
Try if CV 50 works with your loco.
If it works, they forgot CV 50 in the CV table.
It it doesn't work, they forgot to remove the passage from the loco manual.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#24 Posted : 03 August 2014 15:31:28(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
I did tested to set CV50 to zero value.
It didn´t worked!
The lighting started flashing and i couldn´t reset locomotiv.
The sounds did also react strange.
So i decides to reset in CV8 to factory standard.
Locomotiv manual is default about CV50.
It should stand..."don´t use it!"
CS3...H0...
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