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Offline Mike M  
#1 Posted : 26 July 2013 06:03:21(UTC)
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Mike M

Canada   
Joined: 01/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 155
Location: Victoria B.C.

Hi,

I am starting to build my layout and I am using the 74461 turnout decoders for switching. How are these as far as reliability vs the k83 decoder? Being new at this I discovered after I had ordered 22 of these that I would have been much cheaper with the k83.Oh well live and learn. My only concern now is the reliability,obvously these would not be as accessable as the k83.

Your advice would be appreciated.
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Offline efel  
#2 Posted : 26 July 2013 08:18:20(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Hi,
I don't think there is reliability issue concerning either k83 or 74461.
On the contrary, large reliability issues have been reported concerning the turnout motor itself.
You may read it on the forum.
It is advised to short the end shut off switches of the motors before starting the layout.

Fred
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Offline Mike M  
#3 Posted : 26 July 2013 15:50:19(UTC)
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Mike M

Canada   
Joined: 01/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 155
Location: Victoria B.C.
Hi, Could you explain how to short the end shutoff switches of the motors please

Mike
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Offline Danlake  
#4 Posted : 27 July 2013 16:23:00(UTC)
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Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Mike,

See this post: https://www.marklin-user...4490-turnout-motors.aspx

Note; not all users are having problem with the mechanical turnout device 74490/91.

Main advantages with K83 types is that you can use external power supply to switch the turnouts.

But on the other hand with decoder build into the track you will have much less wiring.

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline efel  
#5 Posted : 27 July 2013 17:09:59(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: Mike M Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Could you explain how to short the end shutoff switches of the motors please

Mike

Have a look for instance Here

Fred
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Offline efel  
#6 Posted : 27 July 2013 17:12:38(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

Main advantages with K83 types is that you can use external power supply to switch the turnouts.



NOT with the Marklin k83! You must use other brand
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Offline Mike M  
#7 Posted : 27 July 2013 17:23:41(UTC)
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Mike M

Canada   
Joined: 01/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 155
Location: Victoria B.C.
Hi, Thank you for everyones advice.
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Offline Danlake  
#8 Posted : 27 July 2013 19:04:20(UTC)
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Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

Main advantages with K83 types is that you can use external power supply to switch the turnouts.



NOT with the Marklin k83! You must use other brand



You can use a booster to power your K83.

Correct with Viessmann you can use a normal 16vac transformer.

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Janne75  
#9 Posted : 20 November 2013 18:24:32(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

Upping this old topic, sorry... Wink I had to change today two turnout decoders as they were damaged. Turnout motors were jamming and decoders took too much current and got damaged. They only control turnout motors to other direction now and will be as spare parts or thrown away later. I bought two 74660 decoder as I don't like the newer 74661 design. I don't have to control turnout lanterns lights on and off etc.

These 74460 and 74461 turnout decoders are reliable normally, but 74490 and 74491 turnout motors are unreliable due their micro switches. I have shorted all my turnout motors micro switches.

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Johnvr  
#10 Posted : 22 November 2013 07:28:31(UTC)
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Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi all,

I am also in the process of soldering across the micro-switches , because several of my mechanisms switch only one way.
May be something to do with the coastal air and small amounts of particles, but I would rather they worked properly when I push the button !
It is such a pain to have to lift the track when one has to replace the turnout mechanism.

Regards,BigGrin
John
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Offline Janne75  
#11 Posted : 22 November 2013 09:10:59(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I am also in the process of soldering across the micro-switches , because several of my mechanisms switch only one way.
May be something to do with the coastal air and small amounts of particles, but I would rather they worked properly when I push the button !
It is such a pain to have to lift the track when one has to replace the turnout mechanism.

Regards,BigGrin
John


Hi John,

When shorting them be careful that the micro-switches don´t move from their original positions. It won´t happen if you are careful and just quickly solder a short between them. I had two turnout motors which I had fixed by shorting the micro-switches and they were jamming a bit later. If micro-switches move more towards the movable inner part (lever or acting shaft?) in turnout motor this can happen. The trick is to not heat the circuit board too much to avoid micro-switches factory solderings to heat and get loose, only enough to be able to make short soldering across the micro-switches.

Good luck! Otherwise all my fixed 74490 and 74491 turnout motors are working really good. When those two fixed turnout motors was jamming I did not notice it and only thought that there is again some other electrical problem in the turnout motors themself. Then I just tried to switch them some times and when they were jamming I burned two turnout decoders, because of too high current maybe? ThumbDown . There became some smoke from one of them Wink . I fixed these already by changing the decoders and new fixed turnout motors and now everything works like they should. ThumpUp

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 25 November 2013 10:08:38(UTC)
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Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

I hope you can make sense of this German instruction on how to fix the turnout switches.

http://www.mist7.de/home/Varistoreneinbau.pdf

Per.

Cool
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 25 November 2013 10:45:56(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
I hope you can make sense of this German instruction on how to fix the turnout switches.
These instructions show how to convert a 74490 to a 74491.
Some folks say the 74491 is still not working reliably and the shut-off switches should be bridged.

The PDF nicely shows how to open the turnout mechanisms - and AFAIK you only have to apply a wire instead of the varistor that is used in the PDF.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Janne75  
#14 Posted : 25 November 2013 15:14:37(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Yes, both 74490 and 74491 are unreliable and should be shorted (bridged), but only when using them with a controller (CS2 etc.) where switching time in ms (milliseconds) is adjustable. So if used with control boxes they should not be shorted then.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline jfhjg  
#15 Posted : 25 November 2013 17:41:08(UTC)
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jfhjg

Ireland   
Joined: 29/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Delgany
Janne,
If you have a decoder which is only working on one direction, you could use it to drive a decoupling track solenoid...
Regards,
John
DB: BR86 SBB: 2x Ae6/6; Re620; Ee3/3; Re4/4ii; RAe TEEii; 3x Re481; Ae7/14; Re460
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Offline efel  
#16 Posted : 26 November 2013 09:50:20(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
[
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
..The PDF nicely shows how to open the turnout mechanisms - and AFAIK you only have to apply a wire instead of the varistor that is used in the PDF.


Hi,
For a long time, I wanted to know if M. was using a capacitor or a varistor in the 74491. I can read in that link that the author suggests to use a varistor, that is the right way to go to avoid any spark. Unfortunately, as I can't read german and as that pdf does not allow to copy and past (!?) in order to translate it, I can't know if the author says that he is sure M. is also using a varistor.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Fred
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Offline Janne75  
#17 Posted : 26 November 2013 10:29:37(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: jfhjg Go to Quoted Post
Janne,
If you have a decoder which is only working on one direction, you could use it to drive a decoupling track solenoid...
Regards,
John


Thanks for info John.

I don´t have any decoupling tracks though, but I will keep them for that purpose anyway if I some day have them. I use Telex locomotives or do it "manually".

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 26 November 2013 11:30:54(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
For a long time, I wanted to know if M. was using a capacitor or a varistor in the 74491.
In the document they write that they found varistors inside the new turnout motors (shipped 2011).
They write about a nominal voltage of 26 V and a break-through voltage of 32 V.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline efel  
#19 Posted : 26 November 2013 13:49:17(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Thanks a lot, Tom
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