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Offline LionelMPC  
#1 Posted : 04 May 2005 00:28:10(UTC)
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LionelMPC


Joined: 03/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 212
Location: Washington state, USA
Hello everyone,

I've been reading and enjoying the forum the last few days, so I thought I would join the fun.

A while ago I purchased a 29186 set with a Delta loco, because I wanted another loco and a bigger transformer. I used it as a conventional engine for several months, and it ran great that way. I later picked up a 66045 Delta Control 4f on ebay to try it out and see how it worked.

Thing is, when I hook up the Delta 4f, it seems to work fine but the loco doesn't seem to run nearly as nice. The speed control seems jerky, the headlights flicker, and the motor sounds different - it's louder and has kind of a "grinder" noise to it that is not there normally. Overall the engine seems to run much smoother and quieter in conventional mode. Is this normal with Delta or is something wrong with my Delta control, or decoder possibly?

Thanks,

James
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Offline john black  
#2 Posted : 04 May 2005 00:38:36(UTC)
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john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by LionelMPC
<br />The speed control seems jerky, the headlights flicker, and the motor sounds different - it's louder and has kind of a "grinder" noise to it that is not there normally. Overall the engine seems to run much smoother and quieter in conventional mode. Is this normal with Delta ?


Hi James, welcome to The Forum Smile!

The answer is a BIG YES - such is normal with Delta. That's why we go Digital ... [:p]

Best Regards
John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#3 Posted : 04 May 2005 00:40:40(UTC)
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Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
I think it's rather common at least. Perhaps normal. It won't be better with another control, but with a change of the Delta decoder I think.
/lars
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Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 04 May 2005 01:13:28(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,610
Location: United Kingdom
Welcome to the forum JamesSmile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline HueyCE  
#5 Posted : 04 May 2005 03:42:20(UTC)
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HueyCE


Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
Welcome to the forum James.

Ira
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage
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Offline Dieter260  
#6 Posted : 04 May 2005 12:39:25(UTC)
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Dieter260


Joined: 12/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: ,
Hello James,
unfortunately Lars is right. The delta decoders are very poor decoders. I placed them into simple locomotives that run not very frequent.
If you want to spend the money I can recommend the high-efficiency propulsion in conjunction with a ESU LokPilot Version 2.0
Dieter
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Offline LionelMPC  
#7 Posted : 04 May 2005 22:34:39(UTC)
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LionelMPC


Joined: 03/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 212
Location: Washington state, USA
Thanks everyone, I figured that was probably the case but I wanted to ask anyway. I'll probably stick with analog until I can get something better.

-James
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Offline BarneyG  
#8 Posted : 05 May 2005 01:48:35(UTC)
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BarneyG


Joined: 14/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 80
Location: Canberra, ACT
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by LionelMPC
<br />Thanks everyone, I figured that was probably the case but I wanted to ask anyway. I'll probably stick with analog until I can get something better.

-James

Hi James,
I recently converted three analogue engines to delta with the 66031 decoder which I control with a delta 4f. They all operate really well, particularly the 3021 V200 diesel. I also bought the 29185 starter set (same as yours, except for 230v)and I have noticed since your post that it doesn't perform as well as the retro fitted locs, but had noticed it before as have never run it as analogue.

I thought I would be content with the four engines and Delta, but once I got a taste of digital via delta, I must confess, I am now hooked. I have just bought a fifth engine which is being converted with the mfx decoder 60924 - will still operate on Delta but without all the functions.

my advice - if you are going to expand, buy digital up front or convert straight to digital if analogue. Use them on Delta until you get to the point where you want more, then take the next step up to MS or CS. Or has been mentioned in numerous other posts, buy a digital starter set to get it all (note some other posts in this forum however about the potential limitiations with the starter set MS).

Most impoertant however, enjoy what you have got.
David
M Track, Delta
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Offline Gert-Jan  
#9 Posted : 10 May 2005 11:54:33(UTC)
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Gert-Jan


Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: Netherlands
The technical reason behind this "conventional-delta" difference:

A delta loc has typically an so called "allström" engine. That is in facht an AC/DC engine...the magnet consists of two coils which provide the magnetic force.

In analog / traditional mode, the current fed to the loc is a pure sine waveform...

In delta mode it actually runs on digital power source. Since true digital decoders feed to true permanent magnet DC engine the track current is far from "pure sine waveform...

So delta mode runs like an analog engine with quite nasty AC current.
Mosty era III DB.
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