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Offline Drongo  
#1 Posted : 27 April 2013 12:08:13(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Everyone,

I've been playing around with my layout to computerise it with the help of a very generous member of the forum. As you know, to control the trains by computer, you need to install contacts in the tracks. So far I have installed 15 s88's, which means that I have 240 contacts. Confused Confused I haven't finished and I need to install another 3 units. OhMyGod OhMyGod OhMyGod Hence, the topic to see if I'm "normal" and others have this many units on their layout.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline nevw  
#2 Posted : 27 April 2013 12:25:41(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
No only have 4 S88 Boxes. So max of 64 contact tracks. I am only a junior.

NN
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Janne75  
#3 Posted : 27 April 2013 13:03:57(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
I have none (zero) s88's. My layout is not controlled by computer and will not be in the future. It is way too complicated for me. I have only 17 turnouts digitalised and I use them with CS2 by myself. My 16 signals are from Märklin My World series and I use them with their control boxes. They don't cut off track current so they are only for looks.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline French_Fabrice  
#4 Posted : 27 April 2013 13:44:26(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hi,
My previous layout (Trossingen) used a total of 6 compatible S88 modules (I use LDT feedback modules), with some 10% unused contacts.

The next layout I'm planning (Trossingen II) should have around 120 contacts, i.e. 8 to 10 modules with spare inputs. But the plan is not definitive...

Greg, the amount of S88 you give is quite important. Do you have a large layout and/or many tracks ?

Cheers
Fabrice
Offline sikardon  
#5 Posted : 27 April 2013 15:16:09(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 171
Dear Greg,

Wow, amazing!
I only have 1 S88. Your layout must be the same size (or maybe larger) like the one I saw in Berlin's Alexa Mall, or in Melide's Swiss Miniature, I think... Blink What SW do you use to control your loco/layout?

Cheers,
Sony
Offline steventrain  
#6 Posted : 27 April 2013 15:18:27(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I never have any s88 on my layout but many of k83.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline MikeR  
#7 Posted : 27 April 2013 23:11:22(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Hi Greg

I am also using computer control and while I am using Loconet based units, I will probably end up with about 10 - 12 s88 equivalent units with 16 feedback lines per unit. The length of my planned track work is currently about 130 metres. I use track contact sections with the full block being a contact section. Most blocks have 4 feedback sections - 1 short track (about 18cm) at each end to be used as "Stop" contacts and the middle of the block split into 2 sections. My blocks are about 1,8 metres in length as I hope to have a maximum train length of 1,7 metres. The idea of splitting the middle section is to allow me to reconfigure a block into 2 smaller block if needed. The shorter blocks will only have a shorter "Stop" section at one end but I can use Virtual contacts in RR&Co.

My feeling is that whenever you are providing information for computer control you need plenty of feedback for effective computer control. Track contact sections are easier to build into the track while building the layout. My track-work is going a bit slower than would be the case if I did not have so many contact sections.


Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by MikeR
Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 27 April 2013 23:43:55(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: youngagain Go to Quoted Post
Hence, the topic to see if I'm "normal" and others have this many units on their layout.

Greg

Greg

I would never say anyone was abnormal in this hobby, however 240 contacts is "pushing to the envelope!"
All credit to your team for wiring, much least your future tasks of all the layout choreography you can image. (Which "smiley" is for jealousy) Drool

To venture above 256 contacts (16 s88s) in the same subsystem you can utilise multiple CS2s , and or the upcoming s88Link. each with their own s88 "chain"
of if your software supports multiple controllers, then procuring an old 6023 or 6021/6050 would be another solution.




Peter
Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 28 April 2013 00:11:58(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
...To venture above 256 contacts (16 s88s) in the same subsystem you can utilise multiple CS2s , and or the upcoming s88Link. each with their own s88 "chain"...


I believe that the USB-based HSI-88 is a more cost effective approach for handling large numbers of s88 modules.. Especially when you have a computer application that can handle multiple HSI-88 units..

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline Harvey  
#10 Posted : 28 April 2013 00:23:54(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Hi

I have 2 S88's with 28 turnouts (M track) connected via K83 and several blocks connected via K84. This is all connected to my CS. I use reeds to control my two hidden yards and signals (and blocks). I use 2 circuit tracks (connected to the S88) to control my shuttle train. Works fine. Only issue (I assume this is a CS issue) is that signals sometime don't operate correctly. I just need to hit emergency stop and it resets. I believe this is a known issue to Marklin.

Harvey
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 28 April 2013 01:18:47(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
I've only got 2 S88's at the moment, and not all inputs are wired up as yet (that's the next big job). I could get some more, but can't ever see me going more than four in total (unless I get some of the current sensing versions).

I'm using Viessmann 5217's, and all of my sensors (at this stage) are reed switches.
Offline bo  
#12 Posted : 28 April 2013 01:37:56(UTC)
bo

Ukraine   
Joined: 29/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Ukraine
Hi, Greg

I have only x2 s88 on my 3x3m layout.


Boris
Offline Ross  
#13 Posted : 28 April 2013 02:41:46(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Greg, All,

I have 11 modules (176 contacts, which will increase soon) on my small layout (1.5m x 6m). The amount of s88 modules is in proportion to the amount of track, points to create controlling blocks. The number of s88 contacts in each block is proportional to the finite control you require to control your trains. In some blocks I have up to 5 or 6 s88 contacts to allow very fine control of different trains.

My vote is that you are 'normal' Greg BigGrin

Originally Posted by: youngagain Go to Quoted Post
Hi Everyone,

I've been playing around with my layout to computerise it with the help of a very generous member of the forum. As you know, to control the trains by computer, you need to install contacts in the tracks. So far I have installed 15 s88's, which means that I have 240 contacts. Confused Confused I haven't finished and I need to install another 3 units. OhMyGod OhMyGod OhMyGod Hence, the topic to see if I'm "normal" and others have this many units on their layout.

Regards
Greg


Ross
Offline Ross  
#14 Posted : 28 April 2013 02:58:20(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hello Peter,

I wouldn't recommend an old 6023 or 6021/6050 (first generation digital system) as a second system to a CS, as it is far too slow in the response time. The LDT high speed unit or the uCon-s88-Master allow the s88 chain to be split and are very fast. If these systems are selected then you need to ensure that your computer software supports them as extra systems to the controlling central unit.

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: youngagain Go to Quoted Post
Hence, the topic to see if I'm "normal" and others have this many units on their layout.

Greg


To venture above 256 contacts (16 s88s) in the same subsystem you can utilise multiple CS2s , and or the upcoming s88Link. each with their own s88 "chain"
of if your software supports multiple controllers, then procuring an old 6023 or 6021/6050 would be another solution.



Ross
Offline clapcott  
#15 Posted : 28 April 2013 06:56:22(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Point taken. In context I was making the suggestion that a PC can support multiple controllers an (if you had a 6023 / 6021/605x around) they could be put to use. I wasn't implying that anyone would go out and buy one, however a number of people have updated to a CS2 (or ECoS) and still desire some RoI from their old kit.

Personally I use a couple of options including UBs 63880 "LocoNet-s88-adapter" via a rrCircuits USB-LocoNet adapter.
Peter
Offline Johnvr  
#16 Posted : 28 April 2013 10:25:35(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi all,

On my layout, I use 2 x s88 modules.
The inputs come from 8 bi-directional contract tracks around the layout, generating 16 trigger points.
These are used to drive 8 signals and 16 turnouts.
I use 6021 controller, Keyboards and Memory - all 100% Marklin.

At the moment, I do not use blocks other than my signal blocks, nor occupation detectors, but I plan to use these on my next layout.

For my opinion, I can honestly say that trigger automation brings a whole new chapter to layout operations.

Regards,BigGrin
John
Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 28 April 2013 12:18:38(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have no use for any S88 modules as my layout is small and I prefer manual operation.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Drongo  
#18 Posted : 28 April 2013 12:59:45(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: sikardon Go to Quoted Post
Dear Greg,

Wow, amazing!
I only have 1 S88. Your layout must be the same size (or maybe larger) like the one I saw in Berlin's Alexa Mall, or in Melide's Swiss Miniature, I think... Blink What SW do you use to control your loco/layout?

Cheers,
Sony


Hi Sony,

Yes the layout has sort of one out of control regarding size - currently I have 4 tables of approximately 3 x 2.5m each. I'm trying to convince the FD that the adjoining bedroom would be a great place to extend, but she doesn't think cutting holes in the walls is a good idea. Love Love Love BigGrin BigGrin I keep telling her that the walls can easily be repaired, but she won't buy it !!Crying Crying

The software that I'm using is TrainController version 8 and with Ross's help I'm finding it to be a very useful program. When I have a chance I'll take a photo of the 16 s88's with the wires - it looks like a telephone exchange. Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Regards
Greg
p.s. have a look at my website - it hasn't been updated for a while but it will give you some idea of my layout.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline sikardon  
#19 Posted : 28 April 2013 15:19:53(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by: youngagain Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sikardon Go to Quoted Post
Dear Greg,

Wow, amazing!
I only have 1 S88. Your layout must be the same size (or maybe larger) like the one I saw in Berlin's Alexa Mall, or in Melide's Swiss Miniature, I think... Blink What SW do you use to control your loco/layout?

Cheers,
Sony


Hi Sony,

Yes the layout has sort of one out of control regarding size - currently I have 4 tables of approximately 3 x 2.5m each. I'm trying to convince the FD that the adjoining bedroom would be a great place to extend, but she doesn't think cutting holes in the walls is a good idea. Love Love Love BigGrin BigGrin I keep telling her that the walls can easily be repaired, but she won't buy it !!Crying Crying

The software that I'm using is TrainController version 8 and with Ross's help I'm finding it to be a very useful program. When I have a chance I'll take a photo of the 16 s88's with the wires - it looks like a telephone exchange. Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Regards
Greg
p.s. have a look at my website - it hasn't been updated for a while but it will give you some idea of my layout.


Hi Greg,

Just visit your website, you have a very wonderful layout! Love Love Love fantastic!
Do you also use faller car system? well, it can be your next project if the adjoining bedroom is not permitted by FD BigGrin
Question: the platform in Tesville Central Station, what is it? Looks like Vollmer 3545.
What SW do you use for layout planning? Wintrack?

Cheers,
Sony
Offline Drongo  
#20 Posted : 29 April 2013 06:47:03(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Sony,

Thanks for the comments on my layout. I have to admit that I have someone else to help me with it so I can't take all the credit.

The software that I'm using is TrainController Version 8 and the main station is the Faller 120199. Regarding the Faller car system - well that's a whole new ball game. I'm waiting to master the train system first and that will take some time. After that, well maybe the car system will be the go. BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline dementiaprevention  
#21 Posted : 29 April 2013 07:26:18(UTC)
dementiaprevention

Australia   
Joined: 12/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Hi Greg,

I too am building a fairly complex layout with an expected number of feedbacks exceeding 400. I've already installed 3 x Maerklin s88s, 8 x LDT units, 5 x Uhlenbrock units. More to come. I have them communicating to iTrain on a Mac. Some are coming into the Mac via a Loconet/USB interface (the Uhlenbrock ones) and the rest through an LDT HSI s88 interface via a serial to USB adaptor. History is why I have multiple suppliers' equipment. If I were to be starting now, I'd get LDT's gear as I can source them from local train shop in Pymble, NSW.

I echo the learned advice of others stating that the more refined control you desire form your software, the greater number of feedbacks you could implement.

I have typically installed 4 feedbacks locations per block that expects bi-directional traffic flow and three where it will be uni-directional. One feedback at the entry, one at the end and the middle two are 900mm from the stop feedbacks (at either end) as this is my braking distance set for trains. Each block is typically between 2.4m and 5.0m in length, with the station ones sometimes shorter if I have points within the station. For my turntable & roundhouse, I plan to have one at the place of entry to the spur tracks (as occupancy detection) and another as the "stop" feedback near the buffers - this means 40 feedbacks for 20 tracks surrounding the turntable.

Maybe I'm over-sensing the layout, but as I'm experimenting with running parts of the layout as they are being completed, I'm finding reasons to add more feedbacks, rather than rationalise them to fewer.

Hope 'tis useful info.

Al.

PS : I've found the easiest way to add feedbacks is to (1) use silver solder to attached wire to outside edge of K-track, then (2) use superglue to secure about 8 ties to the rails in each direction out from the point where the wire is attached; then when the glue is dry, (3) use a DREMEL with fine cut wheel to cut the track about 4 sleepers in each direction away from the soldered wire. I'm now experimenting with using a thicker version of super glue to bridge the cut gap, as I found the track cleaning rubber grindings were lodging in the gap and providing electrical conductivity and false readings - success so far.
kind regards,
Al

Remember : Switzerland was built as a full-scale model of Dad's train set
Note : Dementia not curable ... yet.
How to avoid : have a hobby, learn another language, keep brain busy - complex problem solving
Treatment : play trains !!!
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Offline Gregor  
#22 Posted : 29 April 2013 08:44:31(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Hi Greg,

I have 4.5 s88. (One of them is a DIY kit with only 8 inputs). I use them to receive feedback from 52 points on the layout where trains stop, some of which have a predetection point where the trains start their slow down ramp. All feedback points have current detection. 8 inputs are used to detect output of 8 boosters, when one of them switches off due to overload or short circuit, they warn the control system and I receive an alarm on screen.

Indeed, you have a great layout !

best regards,
Gregor
Offline lglarsson  
#23 Posted : 29 April 2013 11:15:38(UTC)
lglarsson

Sweden   
Joined: 04/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Enskede,
Hi All
I have 4 märklin s88 on my layout and planning for addisional 4. I'm using them for track detection on the hidden yard. My layout is controlled by WinDigipet.
I'm planning to have them on my entire layout for track detection. Later on I will configure Win Digipet so the system will provide automatically free tracks on the hidden yard.
Regards LG
Märklin collector/K-track, permanent layout since 1985/60214 CS2, CS3+, 60174 Boosters/WinDigipet, WinTrack, Collection/
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Offline Andreas K  
#24 Posted : 29 April 2013 16:12:46(UTC)
Andreas K


Joined: 04/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 191
Location: South Africa.
Hi All

I use 3 off S88’s to control about 30 trains, the simpler the better.
My CS2 does all the work so no computer control is needed.
I use k84 decoders to switch off certain contact points, so that a contact point is active and other times not.
I use another contact point further down the track to switch it on again. This is handy if you run trains with more than one pickup shoe.

Regards

Andreas k
Pure Marklin - Steam is my Passion
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Offline Brakeman  
#25 Posted : 29 April 2013 21:16:17(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 298
Location: Southern California
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
I have none (zero) s88's. My layout is not controlled by computer and will not be in the future. It is way too complicated for me. I have only 17 turnouts digitalised and I use them with CS2 by myself. My 16 signals are from Märklin My World series and I use them with their control boxes. They don't cut off track current so they are only for looks.

Janne


That sounds like a good plan for manual control! I have to say that I have overlooked the whole My World -section.
Janne how about some pictures maybe in a separate thread?

Thanks,
Juha

BTW, no s88 (yet?).
I have a hybrid layout. Two mobile stations for running the trains half manually and 6021 with Keyboard controlling the switches and semaphores. A short on the track doesn't affect the switch controls.
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