Marklin 3346 (Twin V36/236)

Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Error

Marklin 3346 (Twin V36/236) - Syncronization?

Options

View

Previous Topic Next Topic

BrandonVA		#1 Posted : 12 December 2012 17:05:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA		Hello all, The latest in my ebay purchases (yes, roll your eyes), Marklin 3346. First, the details for anyone interested: It's a double headed V36. The two locomotives are permanently connected, each one has it's own motor. There is one slider shared by both locs. Each one has two traction tires, giving the whole thing four total. It is analog with an electronically controlled manual reverse unit, which resides in one unit. Despite it's size, it is decently strong and can pull a good weight up a 4% grade. Now, the question: Is there any analog electronics technique employed in this set to attempt to somewhat synchronize the two motors? I don't think so, but curious so I thought I would ask. It seems when I first start the locomotive, the forward unit moves, and the rear unit picks ups speed until it is somewhat matching the first. I have serviced (cleaned with ronson and replaced brushes) on both motors, just to make sure they are running as well as they can. There are no problems with the set, I just want to know how or if Marklin synchronizes it. -Brandon
		My (new) layout progress - BrandonBahn III My previous layout - Brandonbahn II (click here)


User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks


	Wish to join the discussion?! Login to your marklin-users.net community \| Forum account or Register a new forum account. Or Connect via Facebook

Markus Schild		#2 Posted : 12 December 2012 19:05:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,802 Location: Wurttemberg		Hi Brandon, Nothing like that. Märklin trusts in the similarity of the motors. There are better examples and loco which are not so good: When one loco is much stronger than the other. I remember that dealers sent back many of these. Regards Markus
		WWW
1 user liked this useful post by Markus Schild		BrandonVA
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

BrandonVA		#3 Posted : 12 December 2012 20:02:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA		That's Markus, that's what I suspected. I don't see how they would do it easily. I guess I'm 20 years too late to send it back. It's an interesting piece anyway, even if I don't run it a lot. I have considered removing the traction tires from one driver set if it becomes a problem, but I have only run it a few minutes so far. I do not think I will do this, but if I were to convert it to digital I wonder if there there a decoder that allows for such synchronization. I know the newer PA-1 and F7 A-B-B and A-B-A sets have multiple motors. -Brandon
		My (new) layout progress - BrandonBahn III My previous layout - Brandonbahn II (click here)


User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

nevw		#4 Posted : 12 December 2012 22:10:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Originally Posted by: BrandonVA That's Markus, that's what I suspected. I don't see how they would do it easily. I guess I'm 20 years too late to send it back. It's an interesting piece anyway, even if I don't run it a lot. I have considered removing the traction tires from one driver set if it becomes a problem, but I have only run it a few minutes so far. I do not think I will do this, but if I were to convert it to digital I wonder if there there a decoder that allows for such synchronization. I know the newer PA-1 and F7 A-B-B and A-B-A sets have multiple motors. -Brandon Brandon, I converted an anologue F7 A-A unit to Digital. Just used ONE ESU loksound Decoder. Works Ok. Power draw was below the decoder limits. Nev
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around

1 user liked this useful post by nevw		BrandonVA
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

BrandonVA		#5 Posted : 20 December 2012 16:17:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA		Hello all, For anyone interested, a few photos of these locomotives: The "Back" locomotive, the one without the slider. Showing electronic reverse controller, motor: The "front" locomotive, the one with the slider. Showing motor, mechanical reverse unit: The permanent connection between the two units: The bottom (serial number indicates made in 1984 I believe): -Brandon
		My (new) layout progress - BrandonBahn III My previous layout - Brandonbahn II (click here)

2 users liked this useful post by BrandonVA		Mark5, MalinAC
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Sander van Wijk		#6 Posted : 20 December 2012 17:14:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		Originally Posted by: nevw Originally Posted by: BrandonVA That's Markus, that's what I suspected. I don't see how they would do it easily. I guess I'm 20 years too late to send it back. It's an interesting piece anyway, even if I don't run it a lot. I have considered removing the traction tires from one driver set if it becomes a problem, but I have only run it a few minutes so far. I do not think I will do this, but if I were to convert it to digital I wonder if there there a decoder that allows for such synchronization. I know the newer PA-1 and F7 A-B-B and A-B-A sets have multiple motors. -Brandon Brandon, I converted an anologue F7 A-A unit to Digital. Just used ONE ESU loksound Decoder. Works Ok. Power draw was below the decoder limits. Nev Hi all, As brought up by Nev, I can confirm a conversion of this model (Dopples Lottchen) with only one LokSound (or LokPilot) decoder works perfectly, provided that the motors are converted with a permanent magnet and 5-pole rotor. I have performed conversions like this multiple times. Regards,
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.

2 users liked this useful post by Sander van Wijk		BrandonVA, Mark5
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

DA 800		#7 Posted : 20 December 2012 19:24:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 170 Location: Norway		Hi Brandon, When looking at one of your pictures showing the brush plate side of yhe motor, you can easily see that one of the brush holders is out of alignment. This can have a big influence on motor performance. Ifyou have one "good" and one "bad" brush plate, your motors will not syncronise. Have a look at this thread: https://www.marklin-user..._Marklin-Brushplate.aspx
		- MRR keeps the child in you alive!

1 user liked this useful post by DA 800		marklinist5999
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

BrandonVA		#8 Posted : 20 December 2012 19:51:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA		Thanks, I see what you mean. I'll have to take a closer look at the unit later tonight. It's very interesting, it may be another (although there are many) that multiple copies of the same loco run differently. I try not to have duplicates, but I do have a couple. As you can see the chassis is well worn, so it's certainly been used, although it meets my expectation for how it was described and what I paid. -Brandon
		My (new) layout progress - BrandonBahn III My previous layout - Brandonbahn II (click here)


User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

intruder		#9 Posted : 20 December 2012 23:05:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway		Hi Brandon I converted my 3346 with two 5* motors. First one c91 decoder, later with one mfx decoder. See 3346 conversion Edited by moderator 04 September 2022 23:18:46(UTC) \| Reason: Updated link
		Best regards Svein, Norway grumpy old sod
		WWW
1 user liked this useful post by intruder		BrandonVA
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

tulit		#10 Posted : 20 December 2012 23:44:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC) Posts: 400		I'd almost be tempted to just remove one motor and not have to worry about it. It would decrease the cost of your conversion by only needing one magnet/rotor as well.


User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

BrandonVA		#11 Posted : 21 December 2012 14:53:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA		Originally Posted by: intruder Hi Brandon I converted my 3346 with two 5* motors. First one c91 decoder, later with one mfx decoder. See 3346 conversion Svein, Thank you. If I decide to convert, there could not be a better guide to do so! Very nice! -Brandon Edited by moderator 04 September 2022 23:19:15(UTC) \| Reason: Updated link
		My (new) layout progress - BrandonBahn III My previous layout - Brandonbahn II (click here)


User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Mark5		#12 Posted : 22 December 2012 08:31:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,420 Location: Montreal, Canada		Very nice looking loco set Brandon, Sounds like converting it could be a really interesting project. I am very interested in seeing multiple locos running on a single train, especially since that seems to be the norm IRL with the prototypes these days. Since I have multiple little tank engines like the 3000, I plan to use one that doesn't work as a dummy, by removing any motor restraint on it, just so as not to worry about the question of synchronization. Keep us posted on your progress and performance of these lovely set. Having the two working together in tandem would be a treat to see in digital as well. Great photos btw. What kind of lens are you using? - Mark
		DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70. In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?


User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Webmaster		#13 Posted : 23 December 2012 21:45:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,161		I have a similar issue with the M 37591 - Swiss Ae 8/14 , the dual motors sometimes change characteristics and that causes a kinda "push-pull" effect between the halves while running...
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
		WWW Facebook Twitter

User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Mark5		#14 Posted : 04 September 2022 09:45:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,420 Location: Montreal, Canada		Originally Posted by: Webmaster I have a similar issue with the M 37591 - Swiss Ae 8/14 , the dual motors sometimes change characteristics and that causes a kinda "push-pull" effect between the halves while running... Revisiting this old thread with a slight tangent. Wondering if there is an IRL history somewhere of how the technology developed to synchronize locomotives and if you would have observed locos having a bit of push-pull as they start up in the same way you see train cars tightening up tension in domino fashion as it begins to pull the wagons. If that is the case, the model train doing so would not look out of place, unless of course it creates stress on the motor and burns them out!
		DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70. In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?


User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

marklinist5999		#15 Posted : 04 September 2022 14:55:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,137 Location: Michigan, Troy		Originally Posted by: intruder Hi Brandon I converted my 3346 with two 5* motors. First one c91 decoder, later with one mfx decoder. See 3346 conversion The link is nothing but asian porn!! / Not any more / Edited by moderator 04 September 2022 23:20:11(UTC) \| Reason: Updated link


User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

bph		#16 Posted : 04 September 2022 16:44:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 996		Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Originally Posted by: intruder Hi Brandon I converted my 3346 with two 5* motors. First one c91 decoder, later with one mfx decoder. See 3346 conversion The link is nothing but asian porn!! the post was made back in 2012 and the original site is closed. but the page/site is preserved on this forum: https://www.marklin-users.net/intruder/Svein/Tog/Sites/D/3346.html https://www.marklin-users.net/intruder/ maybe a moderator can update the old link? and the user profile link ? / All done - some of you may need to fresh your browser to see the correct links / Edited by moderator 04 September 2022 23:28:17(UTC) \| Reason: Updated link

1 user liked this useful post by bph		marklinist5999
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Users browsing this topic
Guest

Forum Jump

You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.