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Offline GlennM  
#1 Posted : 03 October 2012 17:28:55(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England

Hello it is me again with another couple of basic questions on Digital running.

Q1

Reading my latest Marklin catalog that I have in English (couple of years old) it states that K83, K84 and S88 decoders can be used with Keyboards, Interface and Memory units, but does not mention the CS2.

I am planning a layout which with either have M track or K track turnouts, which I would like to operate using a CS2.

Do I still need K83, K84 and S88 decoders to operate between my CS2 and the turnouts etc, or does the CS 2 operate them using something else?

Q2

As I understand it originally you needed a digital box called an Interface to connect a Computer to the Marklin Digital to allow computer control. Is this still required? or does the computer connect through the CS2?



I have ordered a couple of Marklin books on the subject but knowing Marklin's translation skills I may not be any of the wiser after reading the books.

Thanks for any comments

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 03 October 2012 17:32:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Glenn,

Keyboard, Memory, and Interface are built into the CS2 and must no longer be bought separately.

Turnout and accessories decoders (k83/k84) and feedback decoders (s88) are still needed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Nielsenr  
#3 Posted : 03 October 2012 17:37:35(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Glenn,

To follow up on Tom's comments, the CS2 uses the K83s, K84s, and S88s to control items on the layout without any additional equipment. And for question #2, the computer software for control will talk directly to the CS2 via the Ethernet connection without any interface module required.

Have fun!!

Robert
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Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 03 October 2012 18:20:00(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I have 18 k83 under the layout connect to CS2 via 60174 booster because very large layout.


Would you like to see k83 and k84 manual in pdf?

http://www.maerklin.de/d...illisten/gesamt_dec.html
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline GlennM  
#5 Posted : 03 October 2012 18:36:06(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England

Tom, Robert and Steven,

Many thanks for your comments and the download link. I now hope someone outbids me for the Interface I bid on on Ebay BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Best Regards

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline GlennM  
#6 Posted : 25 October 2012 15:19:51(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Dear All,

I have another question following on from my last it is sort of related and did not want to start a new thread,

I have a turntable, a transfer table and various none digital cranes, which I know can be operated through various decoders and central station. However, I would prefer to use them in an analogue mode, using the original controls. So my question is supplying power to these devices, I am assuming that these items can be wired separately "off grid" as it were, using a separate transformer, the original controller and wiring that is wholly independent of the digital wiring. I am assuming the cranes will be straight forward as there is no interface with the track, but for the turntable and transfer table this would need separate power supplies one to operate the accessory and one to power the track that the loco sits on. [I hope this makes sense]

My second question is; can I use any transformer for this purpose, as I have several old blue transformers that have been rewired and tested, and I also have two Marklin grey colour transformers that are intended to be used with the old digital control 80. Rather than get rid of these old transformers I was hoping to use them to power the general lighting to my layout and the power to these old analog accessories, thus reducing the electrical drain on the central station and it's transformer.

Thanks once again for your thoughts and help.

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline kbvrod  
#7 Posted : 25 October 2012 16:46:07(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Glenn,all,


> but for the turntable and transfer table this would need separate power supplies one to operate the accessory and one to power the track that the loco sits on. [I hope this makes sense]<

Yes,you can.The turntable can be powered from a seperate transfo to power the the movement of the bridge itself and power the rails/center for digital.

>My second question is; can I use any transformer for this purpose, as I have several old blue transformers that have been rewired and tested, and I also have two Marklin grey colour transformers that are intended to be used with the old digital control 80. Rather than get rid of these old transformers I was hoping to use them to power the general lighting to my layout and the power to these old analog accessories, thus reducing the electrical drain on the central station and it's transformer.<

Yes again!BigGrin

Dr D

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Offline Olle3770  
#8 Posted : 25 October 2012 23:32:43(UTC)
Olle3770

Sweden   
Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: Eskilstuna, Sweden
Is it wrong to add that turnouts CAN be supplied with their own decoders so k83's aren't strictly needed if all they do is to operate switches? I still use them though myself (no decoders in turnouts) because it gives me more options.

//OBj
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Offline eroncelli  
#9 Posted : 26 October 2012 14:16:12(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
Actually there are 3 ways for controlling turn-outs (and any other magnetic coil device):
1) by switches (analogue mode): one switch module controls 4 turn-outs
2) by k83 (digital mode): one module controls 4 turn-outs
3) by embedded decoder (mounted under C track) again in digital mode: one module control its own turn-out

No matter if you have M or K or C

K83 (and embedded modules) are produced by many manufacturers (Viessmann, IEK, LDT etc)
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Offline GlennM  
#10 Posted : 29 October 2012 10:54:32(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Thanks Guys for your responses, especially to Dr D.

Just when I think I am getting the hang of this digital stuff, I find more questions.

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline Tower  
#11 Posted : 08 November 2012 11:10:46(UTC)
Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Glenn,

Just a tip that will save you a lot of money, you can make an K83 do exactly the same as a k84 by using small cheap relays bought at any electronics shop. a k83 goes at almost a third the price of a k84.

Regards

Leon
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Offline Johnvr  
#12 Posted : 08 November 2012 12:58:50(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Originally Posted by: Tower Go to Quoted Post
Glenn,

Just a tip that will save you a lot of money, you can make an K83 do exactly the same as a k84 by using small cheap relays bought at any electronics shop. a k83 goes at almost a third the price of a k84.

Regards

Leon


Leon,

Please can you explain via a diagram if possible.
I don't quite understand what you mean.

Regards,BigGrin
John
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Offline Nielsenr  
#13 Posted : 08 November 2012 23:39:53(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
John,

I am sure Leon will post something, but here is a little drawing I put together for someone else here on the forum a while ago:

UserPostedImage

I use a bistable DPDT relay. A bistable relay requires just a pulse to set it (S on the relay in the drawing) and another pulse to reset it (R in the drawing). Standard K84 decoders use a bistable SPDT relay. A SPDT relay has just one set of contacts. A DPDT relay has two sets of contacts. With a DPDT relay, I can control a stop block and a braking module from one K83 address. With a standard K84, you would have to use two addressed outputs.

The pin-outs on the DPDT relays vary depending on which one you buy. Unfortunately, they are not standardized for pin-outs. If I remember, the pin-out given in the drawing above was based on another forum member's relay that they had purchased.

As I remember, the last time I bought some relays, they cost me about US $2.50 each. I also used an LDT K83 type of decoder which I bought as a kit for around US $20 at the time. I mounted the relays on a small PCB prototyping board with some screw terminals and it ran just around US$32 total to make it a complete K84 with DPDT relays on all outputs.

In this photo, you can see the underside of one of my modules. The LDT K83 decoder is in the bottom left corner. The PCB with the relays is the board in the bottom middle with the blue terminals. The two smaller white PCBs on either side of the relay PCB are brake modules that I built that do not require a transition track due to the usage of a current limiting transister.

UserPostedImage

Hope this helps John. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Robert
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Offline Tower  
#14 Posted : 13 November 2012 12:22:25(UTC)
Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Thank You Robert, exactly what I meant, was not anywhere near a scanner at the time.

Regards

Leon
Offline Nielsenr  
#15 Posted : 14 November 2012 03:31:22(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
No problem Leon ... as I said, I had the diagram from a previous thread ...

Robert
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