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Offline michelvr  
#1 Posted : 20 July 2012 14:25:49(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Good Morning,

I have a Swiss Federal Railways (SBB/CFF/FFS) class Re 4/4 I electric locomotive and a Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) class Re 6/6 f electric locomotive and I would like to have them run together as one unit. I can not find any instructions on how to run two engines together as one on the mobile station 2. Is this possible or do I need to use a central station? Michel
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 20 July 2012 16:38:25(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Michel,

The problem with some of the command stations, they are not made for consists and you find this out after the fact.
if your locos all have mfx decoders, the decoder number is pre programmed and you can't change them.
If your Mobile station allows you to choose an address lik with the MS 1. from the databank, a loco with 2 addresses you than can add them to your MS 2 so long they are not mfx.
When Märklin introduced mfx I wasn't keen on the idea at all because it is a closed protocol but apparently thyey have changed this since than with new sound decoders coming onto the market.
So we have a CS1 , which was abandoned, with CS 2 you have a complete control unit and it does all of the things you expect it to do, when they bought out the MS1 it lacked power output so they've boosted it up and it made a lot of difference but the MS1 didn't read DCC, so they bought a simpler version out with other words if you couldn't afford a CS 2 you are being offerd this unit but it has its restrictions and you have found out, you can't run a consist with this unit.
For some modellers it may be adequate but going further down the track iand if you need more options, they aren't there.

May be another member can guide you to an instruction how to make up a consist.

regards.,

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 20 July 2012 17:44:39(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Michel,

Perhaps you can give us more details about the locos. Are they Marklin? If so, what are the catalogue numbers? Do they have factory fitted decoders or have they been retro-fitted?

If they have MFX decoders it is unlikely you will be able to run them in a consist, as John has pointed out, but if they have other types you might be able to.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline witzlerh  
#4 Posted : 20 July 2012 18:21:56(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
If both of the locs have fx or dcc, consisting is possible with MS1 & 2 and CS1 & 2, you would set both addresses to the same number.

I just checked the MS2 manual, it currently does not allow consisting but perhaps in the future it will. All consisting means is that the CS2 will sent both addresses the same speed and funtion codes at the same time to the different address.

Regardless of what decoder type you have you will need to adjust motor CV's so that both have the same acceleration & deceleration as well as same top speed. One way to verify this is to consist both loks on the track but uncoupled with a set space between them. Run the consist and see if the gap does not change quickly while running up and down with speed, starting and stopping. If the gap is slowly increasing or decreasing, then you are close enough.

The goal is that one loks will not be spinning/dragging wheels because the other one is much faster or slower.

If one lok has a delayed start (due to sound effects) and the other one does not have it, you will have to remember to more speed to step 1, wait for delay to expire and then ramp up speed. That way, there is no large amount of dragging.
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 20 July 2012 18:26:28(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Michel,

as you can see with previous posts it isn't as simple as one expects.
even if you have locos without mfx decoders and you possess Märklin decoders you are limited to program them to be equal in speed

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline michelvr  
#6 Posted : 21 July 2012 02:47:11(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
The locomotives are Marklin; Marklin 26534 (SBB SET) Swiss Federal Railways (SBB/CFF/FFS) class Re 4/4 I electric locomotive and a Marklin 37361 Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) class Re 6/6 f electric locomotive. Both have MFX decoders. Michel
Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 21 July 2012 02:50:36(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Michel.

So there is your answer. mfx locos.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 21 July 2012 08:08:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
MS2 allows to disable mfx. Both locos will then run with their MM addresses. If both locos are set to the same address, they will behave like a consist.
Potential problem: different speeds of both locos. You can try to fiddle with decoder settings (CV) to synchronize them as much as possible.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 21 July 2012 10:19:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
MS2 allows to disable mfx. Both locos will then run with their MM addresses. .


I didn't know that. Thanks Tom!

Now I have another reason to get myself a MS2...
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline jeehring  
#10 Posted : 21 July 2012 13:44:31(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
....all MFX machines also roll under Motorola protocole. Choose Motorola protocole on MS2 , then give the loks the same address...it's just a few more settings on the MS2 after hanging the two machines together ....
Try and see...(but I never experienced it , I don't see why it shouldn't work...)

PS : I'm sorry, I haven't seen Tom's message before I wrote mine....I'm only repeating the same idea uselessly. I still don't know how to cancel a message.
Offline jeehring  
#11 Posted : 21 July 2012 13:58:45(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
....however, there is perhaps some restrictions if you come back to an "MFX + Motorola" MS2.....depending on the priority given by the Loco decoders, they could react as an MFX decoder...I don't know how to disable MFX on this type of decoder....(I don't even know which type of decoder it is)
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 23 July 2012 12:04:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
....however, there is perhaps some restrictions if you come back to an "MFX + Motorola" MS2.....depending on the priority given by the Loco decoders, they could react as an MFX decoder...I don't know how to disable MFX on this type of decoder....(I don't even know which type of decoder it is)
You cannot disable mfx in the pre-installed decoders. You can disable mfx in the controller to run the consist. Enable mfx again and you have two individual mfx locos again.
mfx is the bestest of all protocols and will always have the highest priority (mLD and mSD sold separately allow to disable mfx in the decocer (to do that, you first have to disable mfx in the controller)).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 26 July 2012 03:21:09(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
26534 is a Re 4/4II. The 37361 is an Ae 6/6. They were rarely used together. In most such instances, it would have consisted of an Ae 6/6 being used to pull a damaged Re 4/4II and train or an Ae 6/6 used to push a train headed by a Re 4/4II up the Gotthard incline. The Ae 6/6 was not designed to be used in multiple consists and required a driver for each lok when used for additional loks or as pushers. The Re 4/4II, Re 4/4III, Re 4/4IV, Re 460, Re 6/6 and RBe 4/4 (540) were all designed to be controlled from other such loks.

That being said, you can still combine these loks in fantasy operation or to reproduce one of the above mentioned situations.

Regards

Mike C
Offline NZMarklinist  
#14 Posted : 26 July 2012 04:38:19(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Good Morning,

I have a Swiss Federal Railways (SBB/CFF/FFS) class Re 4/4 I electric locomotive and a Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) class Re 6/6 f electric locomotive and I would like to have them run together as one unit. I can not find any instructions on how to run two engines together as one on the mobile station 2. Is this possible or do I need to use a central station? Michel


Hello Michel,
Without knowing, but assuming you have two Marklin Loks and, lets say one of them is MFX, and the other is FX or a dipswitch (6090) decoder. Set the other Lok to the same address as the MFX one and it should work Unsure (I actually haven't tried that)
If they are both same type of decoders, you don't have a problem, just set them to the same address, unless Scared they are both MFX
If MFX or not, try it with two MS2s, a better option if you don't have the skills and equipment to ensure a performance match between the the two.
The other option is buy a CS1-R or CS2 or Ecos, and the controller will consist them, but..Scared for extended running you need to ensure their performance characteristics, acceleration and braking delay and max speed are matched reasonably closely, otherwise the drive trains (gears and stuff) will wear excesively, and the Loks could even derail on curves, points etc.
Simplist option for you is two MS2's, but try running the the two Loks on the track close together to see how they compare, note the controller settings for each and then couple them together, and off you go Woot Wink
There are plenty of ex starter set MS2's for sale on ebay

Edit; after reading all posts; Blushing
Two MS2s, is your best ( least expensive) option, especially, if you don't have the skills and equipment to ensure a performance match between the the two.
The other option is buy a CS1-R or CS2 or Ecos, and the controller will consist them, but..Scared for extended running you need to ensure their performance characteristics, acceleration and braking delay and max speed are matched reasonably closely, otherwise the drive trains (gears and stuff) will wear excesively, and the Loks could even derail on curves, points etc.
Simplist option for you is two MS2's, or as Tom said disable MFX on the controller (MS2) but try running the the two Loks on the track close together to see how they compare, note the controller settings for each and then couple them together, and off you go Woot Wink
As Tom said a fiddle with CV's will help match them, but I suggest you work on the MFX one and if you get lost or in deep DoDo, just do a factory reset on that one Wink and start again. Take your other Loks off the track whilst your editing or set up a track for programming Blink
There are plenty of ex starter set MS2's for sale on ebay
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline NZMarklinist  
#15 Posted : 26 July 2012 04:54:15(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
mfx is the bestest of all protocols and will always have the highest priority (mLD and mSD sold separately allow to disable mfx in the decocer (to do that, you first have to disable mfx in the controller)).



ThumpUp

Corrected quote/FS

Edited by moderator 26 July 2012 10:43:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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