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Offline unterlegend  
#1 Posted : 23 March 2012 14:53:47(UTC)
unterlegend


Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Kentucky
Hello, I'm getting back into model railroading and had to start from scratch, but I have two questions:
I got a 26490 Wabash Blue Bird and a 37183 with 42283 Rheingold

I'm using an analogue layout and would like to have the locomotives be able to reverse, there was a cryptic picture in the users manual but without any text I am unclear. What do I need to do in order to make them reverse on the analogue layout?

And second one of the coupler pockets on the baggage car of the Blue Bird broke, what is the product number for the replacement part?


Thank you for your time.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 23 March 2012 15:01:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,272
Location: DE-NW
Hi, and welcome to this forum.
Originally Posted by: unterlegend Go to Quoted Post
there was a cryptic picture in the users manual but without any text I am unclear.
I dunno which picture you are referring to - the 37183 manual does not mention anything about reversing in analogue mode.

You need a current grey Märklin transformer (6647, 6646, 66470 or so). It has a scale ranging from 0 to 250 for driving.
Turn the throttle to the left of the 0 position until you hear a click and let it go - this will reverse the direction of the loco.
Don't try this with a blue transformer, this could kill the decoder in the loco.

Same for all Märklin H0 locos in analogue operation.
Description is in the transformer manual, not the loco manuals.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline unterlegend  
#3 Posted : 23 March 2012 15:36:41(UTC)
unterlegend


Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Kentucky
I have a 6646 and I was doing that because that's how it worked with the blue one I had as a kid, however they just don't want to change.
The picture is the engine with two arrows pointing one forward one reverse and shows two pieces being removed. I know next to nothing about digital locomotives but I though there was something you had to do inside of them to make them operate on analogue.
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 23 March 2012 17:00:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,272
Location: DE-NW
There are some digital (or Delta) locos that use DIP switches for address selection where a special DIP switch combination is required for analogue operation.
But digital locos without DIP switches (and many with DIP switches, too) have automatic system detection and will run either digital or analogue without requiring changes.

Pages 25 and following of the manual refer to replacing parts (symbolized by two arrows).
Page 28 refers to replacing brushes - same for analogue and digital locos, but brushes can be round or rectangular.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline unterlegend  
#5 Posted : 23 March 2012 17:21:09(UTC)
unterlegend


Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Kentucky
So it should work fine theoretically, however neither are reversing. I'll mess with that later. Does anyone know the part I would need for the car?

Oh and it was page 25 of the manual if I remember correctly.
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 23 March 2012 17:29:37(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,272
Location: DE-NW
Page 25 in the 26490 manual and page 28 in the 37183 manual show how to replace the brushes. Must be done when they are worn (after many hours of operation) or if they cause problems (in rare cases this can happen after less than one hour of operation if they came from a faulty batch).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 23 March 2012 18:24:53(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,903
Location: Montreal, QC
Request for elaboration:

What happens to the train(s) when you turn the control knob to the left of 0 (zero)?

Do you have one train on the track at a time or are both trains on the layout at the same time?

Both of the models you list have the modern decoder types. These decoders are preset from the factory and work in analog and digital operation automatically as the decoder can detect the voltage/signal that is provided. These decoders do have adjustable settings for analog operation that can be adjusted by modifying settings (CV). Unless these settings have been changed, I would not expect to see a decoder related problem in analog operation.

You can ask Tom Catherall for assistance. He can be reached at tom (at) marklin.com. He was formerly Marklin USA's digital expert.

The diagram that you refer to shows how to remove/replace the brushes. This does not have anything directly to do with reversing directions, although a problem with the brushes can affect the operation, including the reversing. It is possible that there is an issue with the brushes. I find it unlikely that you would have the same problem on two loks at the same time. If you do not have replacement brushes, one thing you can do to test them is to reinstall them inverted and see whether that solves the issue.

As far as the coupler pocket on the baggage car, you can send an email to service (at) maerklin.de or contact Scott at Helmutshobbies.com in VA who may be able to assist you with ordering the part.

Regards

Mike C
Offline unterlegend  
#8 Posted : 23 March 2012 18:34:13(UTC)
unterlegend


Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Kentucky
I really don't think it is the brushes as they were new in the box and I just mentioned the picture with they brushes as they were kind of cryptic.

I have a layout with two loops separately controlled by two 6646 transformers (isolated and correctly wired) and both trains just jump forward a little bit when I try to turn on the reverse voltage and then when I turn up the voltage they move it's the same direction as before. With my old blue one I remember it was just a small turn and the train would kick backwards a bit then it would work, do I have to hold the dial for a longer period of time with the newer transformers?
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 23 March 2012 18:53:08(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,903
Location: Montreal, QC
OK, basic testing time.

Your description is not totally clear. You say you have two loops. Do you mean two parallel tracks (ovals) or some kind of figure 8 other other design?

If you have two parallel tracks with interconnecting switch tracks, the first thing that I will do is to ask you to disconnect the two tracks from each other. This is to make sure that there is no problem with the isolation that may be interfering with the normal operation. Once the two ovals have been fully isolated (are independent), test to see whether each train now operates as intended.

If you are having the same problem with both transformers and both locomotives, regardless of which track they are on, then it is likely that there may be some issue with connectivity.
The majority of isolated setups for multi track ovals or block layouts with sections powered by separate transformers call for the isolation of the centre rail (red) wire only. Please make sure that your transformers are in phase (the newer transformers are equipped with safety plugs with one prong larger than the other) and that both transformers have the red lead attached to the middle rail and the brown (return) wire connected to the outer rails. If possible, make sure that the transformers are connected to the same power source and not to different circuits or outlets.

Once you have completely isolated the two tracks, test the locomotive to see what happens when you "reverse" the transformer. If the problem was related to the operation of the set up, it should now function as intended.

Next question. Do any or all of your coaches have interior lights or taillights? If you have many coaches with lighting, this can use up the power of the transformer and can leave the locomotive with insufficient power to initiate the reverse process. In order to test, please remove all coaches from the tracks.

If you have one coach with lighting and a third rail slider, you can use this coach to test the track voltage. What happens to the lights when you press reverse on the transformer?

Should the above not help you locate the problem, take the following step:

Please take 6-8 sections of straight track, including your power supply. Place one locomotive on the track. Activate the transformer at low to medium low speed. The train should advance in one direction. Before the train gets to the end of the track, stop the transformer. Move the control knob to the left (below) 0 (zero). Does the train reverse? Does it move or make noise?

Regards

Mike C
Offline unterlegend  
#10 Posted : 23 March 2012 19:27:42(UTC)
unterlegend


Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Kentucky
I also ran the trains on a single loop with the same effect, but my layout is two concentric ovals connected at two points and with the center rail isolated.

Since you mentioned the coaches with lights, every single coach has lights (I'm fairly sure LEDs) so it might be the power draw, I'll check with just the locomotives on the track. If this is the case could I add more feeder points to the track to fix this? I'm running nothing other than trains at the moment (no turnouts, lights, ect..) off of the transformers however I will be wiring up the turnouts soon enough.
Offline BrandonVA  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2012 19:55:22(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: unterlegend Go to Quoted Post
I also ran the trains on a single loop with the same effect, but my layout is two concentric ovals connected at two points and with the center rail isolated.

Since you mentioned the coaches with lights, every single coach has lights (I'm fairly sure LEDs) so it might be the power draw, I'll check with just the locomotives on the track. If this is the case could I add more feeder points to the track to fix this? I'm running nothing other than trains at the moment (no turnouts, lights, ect..) off of the transformers however I will be wiring up the turnouts soon enough.


If you don't have enough feeder points on an analog layout, you can defiantly get a worse "jumping" on reverse. I would ccheck the loco reversing directly on your feeder track to see if it works better, and if so check the connections and possible add feeders. I can't remember the exact Marklin guideline for this, but I believe you should have one every 15-20 pieces of track.

-Brandon
Offline unterlegend  
#12 Posted : 23 March 2012 20:00:57(UTC)
unterlegend


Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Kentucky
The entire outer loop is about 7 feet long and uses R3 (inner is R2) and I have feeder wire at two points on each loop not including the two sidings that are center rail isolated so they have a connection run through a 72730.

So three feeder points per loop?
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 23 March 2012 21:45:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,272
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: unterlegend Go to Quoted Post
So three feeder points per loop?
Did you try loco without coaches on the feeder track?
If it doesn't reverse then, then more feeder tracks won't solve the problem.

Do you have C track? Do you use the 74046 radio interference suppressor? Did you wire the second feeder track correctly after the 74046 and not parallel?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mike c  
#14 Posted : 23 March 2012 23:09:47(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,903
Location: Montreal, QC
unterlegend,

Once again, let's get to the core of the matter right away...

Take one power section and about 7 lengths of straight track. Connect to one of your 6646 transformers. Place either the US Diesel or your Steam Engine on the track.
Turn on the power so that the train moves towards on end of the track. When the train gets to 1 foot from the end of the track, stop the power, wait 2 seconds and then turn the dial to the left of zero to initiate a reverse pulse. Does the lok reverse?

Perform the same test with the other lok. Does that one reverse?

If the loks reversed, then the problem is with your wiring. If the loks did not reverse, then the problem is with the lok(s) or with the transformer.
Perform the same test using the other transformer. If the loks reverse, the problem is with the first transformer. If the problem still occurs, the problem is with the lok(s).
I find it unlikely that two loks (likely with slightly different decoders and mother boards) would both experience identical problems.

Once you have completed this test, report back and we can take it from there.

Regards
Offline unterlegend  
#15 Posted : 26 March 2012 05:59:32(UTC)
unterlegend


Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Kentucky
So I spent a day working on it getting mostly wiring the turnouts and one of my transformers could reverse both trains with all cars (the other could not), I switched the leads into the transformers and the one that worked before still worked fine and would reverse the locomotives. So I believe I have a bad transformer. Now I just need to find out where I can get another coupler pocket.
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