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Offline Nielsenr  
#1 Posted : 14 February 2012 04:50:53(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Hey all!!

As many of you know, I have been taking my large floor bahn and moving it to wood modules that still sit on the floor. Lately I have been working on creating routes for alternating trains in the station sidings. I have found I have had to move some contact tracks to get better and more reliable operation. However, I think I have may found another problem.

After working on a couple of two track sidings, I was working on taking two tracks of my main 4 track station on the outer clockwise running track and alternating trains on them. I had earlier in the day moved some contact tracks and was interested in seeing if the operation ran smoother.

The entry switch to these two tracks are different from the other station sidings that I have been working on in that it is powered by a Veissmann 4554 turnout motor. As a train sits stopped in the siding waiting for the second train to come back around, I keep hearing the Veismann turnout motor every so often.

I should add that each siding has two contact tracks. One is right at the entry into the siding and releases the stopped train on the other siding. The second contact track is at the end of the braking section just before a stop track. The second contact track is used to change the direction of the turnout. By the time the train hits the second contact track, the end of the train has exited the first contact track. But the stopped train is on top of the second contact track. BTW, both contact tracks are set up to activate the route on the turn-on transition of the contact track, not the turn-off. And there is a contact track after the exit of the station that sets both stop sections to stop. That contact is setup to activate on the turn-off transition.

Now I was under the assumption that once a contact track has been activated that nothing else happens until it is cleared and set again. However, it appears that the turnout motor is getting multiple commands sent to it to move, even though it is in the correct position and doesn't change to the other track.

I may have caused the problem unknowingly. I use three S88 modules (one Marklin and two LDT versions) that span across multiple modules and use connectors between the boards to link them together. Although I do not see the contact "fluttering" on the CS2 layout screen, I wonder if I have a marginal connection between the S88 modules and I therefore am getting some sort of reset so that the CS2 sees it as a new "hit" on the contact track. Another thought is the second contact track is in a "brake module" area that is activated to brake the train ... is this a problem??

Although the route seems to be working properly despite this "glitch", my concern is when I go and add one or two of the other station sidings and make it a three or four track alternating station (think of something similar to a four track shadow station). Will I get the three turnouts fighting each other as trains sit on three contact tracks that want to change the turnouts to the next track?

Has anyone had any similar experiences? If so, short of using K84s to disable the contact tracks once they have served their purpose, what can be done??

Thanks for your thoughts ... hope I have explained it well ...

Robert
Offline Robert Davies  
#2 Posted : 14 February 2012 23:19:36(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
This may be the 4554 working on its own. Make sure that the motor is positioned correctly relative to the track so that it can complete its travel fully in both directions.

Because the 4554 has contacts which 'know' whether it has travelled the correct distance (and therefore closed the switch blades properly), if the travel is incorrect the 4554 tries to move the blades again from time to time. This is an internal function in the 4554 and is nothing to do with whatever is driving the motor.

This happens quite a lot with one set of points that I have which seem to move on the baseboard a little. At the moment, none of my track is screwed down so this is likely to happen but I am not worried about it in the long term when everything gets fixed in place.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Offline Nielsenr  
#3 Posted : 15 February 2012 03:51:48(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Thanks for the reply Robert!!

I may try and do a test off the layout with the Veissmann 4554s. I have about 10 of them on the layout and I don't here any of the others doing this although it may just be this one having a problem. And I will also do a test of driving that particular four track station just using a single rolling stock on each track to see if I have a bigger problem.

Robert
Offline Nielsenr  
#4 Posted : 15 February 2012 05:45:29(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Ok ... an update ....

I just set up the routes to have all four tracks in the station alternate trains. I used freight cars to simulate the trains so if anything went wrong, I wouldn't have locos crashing in to one another.

The three incoming switches have two Veissmann 4554 turnout motors, the third is a Marklin motor and decoder.

The test failed ... I simulated a train coming in to one siding and have the next track go "green" and the turnouts moved so the next train in would move into the vacant siding. That worked ... But as I "waited" for the train to come back around, all of the switches started moving!! I think I can say with confidence it might(?) have happened when I simulated the train leaving the station and hitting the exit contact track. It makes me believe that if ANY contact track is activated, the s88 is totally resetting itself and re-reading all contact tracks anew. It happened as I simulated train movement on each of the four tracks.

My next test will be off the layout and I will set up a simple situation with a single S88 module (I have a few extras) and a couple of contacts and a turnout motor or two. If that goes well then I have to believe that I may have my three S88 modules too far apart with too many connections in between where the floor modules interconnect. If this is the reason for the problem, it may be a tough one to fix due to how I have everything wired between floor modules.

Just to add a little more information ... the cable between the CS2 and the first S88 is approx, 7 feet with one connector in between. The second S88 is about 9 feet away from the first S88 and there are two connectors in between. The third S88 is approx 10 feet away from the second S88 and has three connectors in between. The contact tracks for this test were all connected to the second S88 except the contact tracks at the exit of the station which were on the first S88. I might try disconnecting the third S88 to see if it is the cause of the problem since I don't need it to run this test again. And yes, I know I have exceeded the maximum distance for S88 modules. Oh yes, the connectors between modules are miniature D connectors, like they used to use for serial connectors to computers. And all of the wire (from the CS2 to the last S88) is Cat 5 Ethernet cable.

For another question, I have seen somewhere a S88 booster. I believe it changes the voltage level from 5v to 12 v and should only be done when your S88 modules use the 4000 series ICs for the shift registers and latches, which mine do. Has anyone used it?? I'll have to do a search and see if I can find it again.

Thanks everyone for reading and thinking about the problem and a solution.

Robert
Offline Token  
#5 Posted : 15 February 2012 10:12:44(UTC)
Token

Australia   
Joined: 25/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi all,

just to add to this intrigue, I have had a similar problem with a new s88 connected to my CS2 for the first time. I have two shadow stations, linked via a through station. I experimented with installing contact tracks to one siding of shadow station'A'and entering the feedback symbol on the cs2 layout page (no route entered as yet). The contact track was connected to the input number 1 on the s88. When the train exited the contact section, a point motor in shadow station 'B' activated. There is no relation to the two and I have never set up a route on the cs2.

All components are Marklin, including the point motor.

Could this be a bug in the cs2 itself (60213 upgraded to v1.6.4)?

Regards,

Token.
Offline Nielsenr  
#6 Posted : 16 February 2012 07:51:36(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Token,

I have never seen that happen on my layout. And I have a CS2 60213 also although I updated to the latest version of software this past weekend.

My next post will talk about my further testing of my problem.

Robert
Offline Nielsenr  
#7 Posted : 16 February 2012 08:02:17(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Hey all!!

First off, I found the info on the S88 booster I was talking about ... it is made by TAMS and increases the voltage to 12v from 5v. It seems to be a rather simple circuit. I may consider it in the future.

Here are some results from my further testing.

I decided to disconnect the third S88 module to see if its distance from the second S88 was to great and was causing the problem. The same results as before ... however I noticed some things that made me question the cable from the CS2 to the first S88. I dug out my 6089 2m S88 cable and connected it in ... YES!! Everything seemed to be working properly!! I could move the rolling stock across the contact tracks and everything worked as it should. I think the connector to the underside of the CS2 was not making a good connection.

Just a little while ago I decided to be brave. I started up to trains on the inner loop and had them alternating at a 2 track station that I call Station 3. I then had four trains running on the outer loop alternating in two 2 track stations,Station 3 and Station 4. Ran the trains for about 20 minutes with no mishaps. Hopefully this has solved the problem and I can get on to fixing some other things on the layout.

I love it when a plan comes together!!

Robert

Offline Token  
#8 Posted : 16 February 2012 09:47:46(UTC)
Token

Australia   
Joined: 25/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Sydney, NSW
Excellent work Robert! I should check my connections are sound too but my experience remains a bit of a puzzle. I will keep trying experiments of my own.

Cheers,

Token.
Offline Nielsenr  
#9 Posted : 17 February 2012 06:22:34(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Token,

Is this problem repeatable? Does it happen every time? I would do a double check to make sure there are no routes previously setup in the CS2. You probably have already done that. If it is not repeatable, not sure how much time you should spend working on it.

Robert
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