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Offline David Dewar  
#1 Posted : 17 December 2004 18:40:28(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
Am I right in saying that when I fit my MS to my layout I will not be able to use my turnouts fitted with digital decoders until I get my CS. I presume the keyboard with the 6021 can not be used with the MS.
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Fredrik  
#2 Posted : 17 December 2004 18:43:12(UTC)
Fredrik

Sweden   
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 642
Hi David,

yes that is correct - however, as you have a 6021 with keyboard, you can use that to control the switches if their decoders are separately wired (while expecting our not-yet-released-new-toy the CS). Smile

Fredrik.
Fredrik.
*ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...)
WWW: MJ-fjärren
Offline David Dewar  
#3 Posted : 18 December 2004 00:08:35(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
Thanks Fredrik. By the time I isolated all my turnouts and rewired the CS will probably be here so I will wait and meanwhile change turnouts by hand or employ some Preisers to do it for me.
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Tolis  
#4 Posted : 18 December 2004 01:21:32(UTC)
Tolis


Joined: 27/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 152
Location: ,

David

Alternatively you can mate 6021 and MS by means of the respective LocoNet adapters from Uhlenbrock. 6021 retains the track connections, MS is only slave but fully functional so no UglyBox TM needed. I find this a much better deal than CS, since you can later use any loconet device.

Tolis
Offline justin182  
#5 Posted : 18 December 2004 06:01:57(UTC)
justin182

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2003(UTC)
Posts: 111
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Tolis
<br />
David

Alternatively you can mate 6021 and MS by means of the respective LocoNet adapters from Uhlenbrock. 6021 retains the track connections, MS is only slave but fully functional so no UglyBox TM needed. I find this a much better deal than CS, since you can later use any loconet device.

Tolis


Does this mean that I could keep my 6021, keyboards, computer interface, and then use the MS as a (basically) control 80f? This would be a great way to get added value from the new starter sets, especially if the Uhlenbrock loconet adapters are not very expensive.
Offline David Dewar  
#6 Posted : 18 December 2004 14:15:56(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
This sounds good...what do I need.
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Tolis  
#7 Posted : 18 December 2004 15:19:11(UTC)
Tolis


Joined: 27/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 152
Location: ,
You need two adapters. The 6021-to-Loconet and the MS-to-Loconet. The first plugs into the 6021 or to a keyboard from the side(like the keyboard does. It also has an IR receiver so you can use the companys remote control(IRIS) straight away. The MS-Loconet adapter is a stand-alone white box that plugs to the first adapter via a loconet cable (no track connection). There are pics of the 2 components at the home page of www.uhlenbrock.de and also in another article of this forum (6021 to MS). I have also heard that the 8 function buttons of the MS can then be used as an extra keyboard though I cannot confirm that. With that setup, save a lot of money and get an IB-Switch instead. Both adapters cost less than 150 Euros

Tolis

Offline David Dewar  
#8 Posted : 18 December 2004 21:13:39(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
Thanks Tolis for info.
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#9 Posted : 19 December 2004 00:41:37(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Tolis
<br />You need two adapters. The 6021-to-Loconet and the MS-to-Loconet. The first plugs into the 6021 or to a keyboard from the side(like the keyboard does. It also has an IR receiver so you can use the companys remote control(IRIS) straight away. The MS-Loconet adapter is a stand-alone white box that plugs to the first adapter via a loconet cable (no track connection). There are pics of the 2 components at the home page of www.uhlenbrock.de and also in another article of this forum (6021 to MS). I have also heard that the 8 function buttons of the MS can then be used as an extra keyboard though I cannot confirm that. With that setup, save a lot of money and get an IB-Switch instead. Both adapters cost less than 150 Euros

Tolis



I can confirm it. You may configure some of the adresses of the MS as being a turnout so to say. But I still don't know details; it might be recoired to borrow an Intellibox, Twin Center or IB-control to do the configuration. That is the case with other smart LocoNet devices, for instance, Lissy or Switch Control.

The cost 150 EUR counts for the units together. But the drawbacks must be mentioned:
1. The 6021 adapter is not yet delivered. It will probably be before the CS, week 2 2005 though.
2. So far, the setup allows for the Motorola protocol only. I think that this means that a loco with up to 8+1 functions will behave exactly the same as controlled directly from the MobStat, but with 14 speed steps, and less than 80 adresses (two adresses are used for each decoder with more than 4+1 functions).

And a warning. As this also gives you LocoNet, the risk is very high that you will continue buy non-Märklin units after this :-)

/Lars

Offline Bart  
#10 Posted : 19 December 2004 02:09:23(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Lars
2. So far, the setup allows for the Motorola protocol only. I think that this means that a loco with up to 8+1 functions will behave exactly the same as controlled directly from the MobStat, but with 14 speed steps, and less than 80 adresses (two adresses are used for each decoder with more than 4+1 functions).
This remark may be most important: As the MS is used as a slave (i.e., just an additional handheld controller), it is most likely that the 6021 will determine the capabilities of the system (14 steps, 80 addresses).

Why would you want to spend €150 to connect an MS for controlling turnouts, if you have a 6021 + keyboard anyway? The only requirement would be separate trafos and wiring for the track (MS) and turnouts (6021).
If, as you said, this would require a major rewiring that is not worth the effort until your CS arrives, an alternative would be to keep using the 6021 and not the MS, especially as the MS will act with the limitations that Lars described, thus not having any advantages over the old configuration. Or am I missing the point?
*Bart
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#11 Posted : 19 December 2004 10:02:17(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Bart,
yes let's hear the reactions, some heard already. Possibly you miss the person who have several I2C boxes, want to keep them, including interface, etc, but still want the comfort of the new control. But there are som many different preferences around, so that's probably not the only one.

/Lars

Offline David Dewar  
#12 Posted : 19 December 2004 21:55:02(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
Thanks guys. Having around 15 turnouts with decoders at various parts of the layout it is not worth rewiring which in any event takes away the advantage of digital (no wiring of turnouts)
As I have the CS on order it will be better to wait until that arrives. I will be getting the 29820 set at Christmas and in order to try the MS I will lose digital control of turnouts.
I am coming to the conclusion that Marklin should have issued all the items at the same time.
As you are aware I am not an IB person but if this new system does not work as I would wish then I may well change but meanwhile will give M a chance to see what they can do.
With the Roco turnout decoders they have an address same as a loco and operate well with Lenz but this system has up till now been well ahead of M.
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Tolis  
#13 Posted : 21 December 2004 00:41:47(UTC)
Tolis


Joined: 27/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 152
Location: ,

Im not sure about the new x-function incompatibility, but not certain either. As I was reading a technical report on M digital, i.e. how it works, its clear that the 6021 and its predecessors pass through all the commands to the track that come from external units like keyboards connected to the side bus. It doesnt have to understand what it passes through (bitwise). As long as the end device (loc or turnout decoder) understands the command, it will execute it. The new x-functions are just brand new digital words from the MS that the 6021 will send exactly as received. Besides the Ubrock engineers cant be that foolishand produce the adapter if there was a conversion problem IMHO.

Tolis
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