Yes - there is far to big a focus on these fantasy models. They need to focus on prototypes. They should revisit the Re6/6 catalogue properly instead of the feeble effort of last year.

I feel it's very sad when companies like HAG sell there soul and move into Toy Trains. I could understand if they wish to broaden the range of items they sell but if they decide to throw several different coloured tins of paint over a body shell and they think it will sell at a high price someone should wake them up!

I have always wanted to own a HAG loco, a model I would expect to see running somewhere on or has run on the Switzerland rail network. They also need to realise that the queue of people willing to pay over 500sfr for one poorly manufactured loco is not very long and getting shorter!

The irony of these models is that as they probably have fairly limited production runs, they will end up as collectors items commanding high prices. An analogous situation happened in America where the Lionel company produced a pink train for girls. Commercially it was a total failure but it is now much sought after.

Bob M.

Further update on HAG.
I had to contact them with a question about my new loco and what should be in the box. A very quick reply told me, in English, that they don't supply spare parts direct to customers anymore and ask my dealer?
Also just to let you know, no red tag, no bag of addons, just the loco without any info drawing showing part numbers!

I just saw photos on railcolor.net showing a few new Re 460 liveries for the Gottardo tunnel opening.

http://www.railcolor.net...id=8842&action=dview

http://www.railcolor.net...5666_60&action=image

I guess that Hag will likely be releasing some of these as special models

Regards

Mike C

Hi!

I am not trying to defend the production of those obnoxious looking HAG Re 460s which are being sold through Loki Depot. Since someone has invested the money (and I guess Loki Depot is probably getting a good transfer price from HAG), it probably has some commercial value or why else would HAG produce these models. Having said that, I think someone has to be nuts to be buying those grotesque looking models

However, we need to be fair to HAG because these models are certainly not their commercial production run available through the dealer network. Over the past 12 months, a number of excellent models have been produced by HAG. I can certainly vouch for the Re 456 26 060-20 Cendres+Métaux SA. The paint quality is almost flawless although purists will certainly come up some imperfection.



and also the Re 460 produced on the 150th anniversary of Swiss Red Cross...



Cheers,

Chris

A quick one for those in the know, are Hag fitting Faiveley pantographs onto the latest 460's? cheers Rob

The other side of the coin is that the strong CHF brings down the cost of attending this trade fair, however the eurozone is not the rest of the world, just a part of it, but good luck to them if they think Swiss sales only will sustain them, cheers Rob

So far no, but they have spread a rumor that they are developing their own Faiveley ("better than the one available from Roco"). However, if this is just one of their usual ritualistic announcements and promises, it is likely that only the very young among our esteemed forum members will be able to view first samples of this product...

A couple more on the website, again CHF750 for the versions with sound, cheers Rob

Mike, the model currently listed on Ebay must be some kind of custom-made "repaint", almost surely not an original HAG product. You have already correctly mentioned the features that distinguish it from the rare pre-series units with the SÜD-OST-BAHN lettering.

Mike, definitely some kind of kitbash attempt - "anything goes".

Harry, if your expression "chip" stands for decoder, then the answer is: no, if it is in the standard condition as built in 1994, then it will not have one. Of course, a decoder can be installed, but you might also have to exchange the older AC field magnet with the DC permanent magnet type.

Most likely you will have to replace the field magnet, replace the light bulbs with ones that can handle the digital voltage and if I remember correctly, you will have to rewire the lights so that they are powered directly from the decoder, as the original setup had the main lead coming from the reverse unit circuit board and the return was via the metal chassis of the locomotive.

There are a number of the BT Re 4/4 KTU (aka Re 456) still available at Swiss shops and online. You may be able to find a digital one at a good price and save yourself the work and cost of having to convert an analog one.

For example, Star Rail has a BT Re 456 Vogele Digital on ricardo.ch for 350 CHF as well as the VAE model
https://www.ricardo.ch/k...2-voegele/v/an800890484/
https://www.ricardo.ch/k...lpen-expr/v/an800890490/

If you calculate the added price of the decoder, the magnet, the bulbs, the wires and the labour to convert the model, the 350 CHF price tag is reasonable compared to 200-250 for an analog model.

Regards

Mike C

I can fully understand your concerns regarding the hassle. However, they will never learn without continued pressure from the customers.

On the other hand, I am a bit surprised to hear that you have already received a (white?) Gotthard Re 4/4. The few people who ordered them here in Switzerland are still waiting for theirs, because the company still prefers to churn out fantasy nonsense such as this here:
http://www.roundhouse.ch...euheiten/HAG_Spezial.htm

Yes it is a real shame but I am only looking for existing models now, either old stock or S/H, the Gottardo's look nice on the website but my money stays in the bank, cheers Rob

I have just managed to purchase my first HAG loco, it was a 'proper' one, old stock from a shop in Switzerland and I love it. The new ones appear to be build and made by someone trying to make a quick buck! I visited Switzerland recently for a week spent travelling on the trains and I never saw a gold loco or wagon. Also I did see the White Gotthard Re4/4 waiting in Lecerne, but the black, red and various other colours being issued by the New HAG did not appear!

A shame what's happened but in these days it's to be expected, any new C**p, don't worry about the quality as long as the money rolls in.

Yes - a turn of events that leaves me completely stunned. My complaint in this thread is for one of these ones from Stucki. I am quite amazed at this turn of events. Given they seem to be one of the last stockists of Hag, I am very surprised at this. I expect that Hag's determination to distribute only through Loki for items like this created the situation. I will be corresponding with Hag on this topic shortly as I am not clear if they understand the dealer restrictions around Loki such as not shipping outside Switzerland.

They have however offered a full refund.

Since we can speak freely here, I can offer the remark that my first impression was also that this entire story sounds rather "unbelievable". I am neither on friendly terms with Mr. Stucki nor with Mr. Niggli (Loki-Depot Horw), but I think I have some insight and knowledge with regard to the Swiss model train scene. Therefore, it seems that there are quite a few reasons for the current absurd situation:

- It was a massive offense by "New HAG" towards the majority of Swiss HAG dealers that the manufacturer awarded exclusive distribution rights concerning the "Gottardo" sets to Loki-Depot Horw. This constant practice of "favoritism" and privileging certain people ("All customers are equal, but some are more equal than others") has enraged many formerly loyal HAG followers, and I have reason to believe that Mr. Stucki was/is one of them.

- However, the said company practice is understandable to a certain extent, because apparently Mr. Niggli (Loki-Depot Horw) pre-financed the entire Gottardo set production. He also appears to have generously pumped money into the "New HAG" outfit (they might need it - who knows...? ).

- "New HAG" and Loki-Depot Horw indeed allowed and invited other dealers to order such sets from Loki-Depot Horw. However and naturally, most of them declined (I assume also Mr. Stucki), but a few (among them Roundhouse at Zürich or EYRO at Interlaken or "C-Gleis-Plus") accepted the conditions imposed on or tied up with this unusual sales method.

- Until fairly recently, Mr. Stucki was one of the most faithful and successful promotors and sellers of HAG products in Switzerland. According to statements distributed today by devotees of Mr. Urech, his dealer status has been immediately revoked following the affair mentioned above. He is not the first dealer to be "punished" in this manner...

- I share Mike's feeling that the basic models used for this "repaint/falsification" stunt must have come from "New HAG". The published pictures support this assumption. However, I do not think that the (re-)painting and printing was done in Switzerland.

- We have the expression in German that "the air is getting thin". From numerous discussions with dealers and modelers throughout Switzerland, I am increasingly getting the impression that "New HAG's" management has by now run so far into a maze full of problems that it might be kind of difficult to find an easy way out. Just too bad...

- And no, the other Gottardo 2016 models mentioned by Mike will be available from any HAG dealer - whenever they may appear on the shelves...

No, do not despair:

- https://www.ricardo.ch/k...e-460-sbb/v/an822706136/
- https://www.ricardo.ch/k...-gottardo/v/an833869926/
- https://www.ricardo.ch/k...o-der-sbb/v/an833870138/
- http://bumoba.ch/sbb-lok...query=hag&results=57

The painted mirror isn't nice, too.

Ok, I admit I know NOTHING about HAG because I was never interested in any other trains than Marklin. That said I knew they are swiss made and supposedly excellent in quality.

The picture above kind of makes me think twice....

I was offered what is claimed to be a NEW digital HAG Re 4/4 II for AC for 270 euros. Is there something fishy here anything I should know about?

Did the Swiss franc crash and did I miss that news? It seems these are normally 600-700 or so?

Thanks,


I think the model is 4 years old or so. In a green box.

What happened to the company that the quality took a hit as per the pictures?


I am guessing that the warranty on the offer I got is exactly zero. Are parts available to fix things or do these use exotic motors etc?


Regards,

Mike

Mike, a green/black/orange box is generally a good sign. Four years old would mean one of the last production runs of the "good old HAG company".

The rest is like Tom just said. Parts should not be a problem. One of the (few) good features of the current situation is that the new owner took over most of the spares.

...if working and undamaged, then it's probably not overpriced. Any details like running number or HAG catalog/model number available?