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Offline laalves  
#1 Posted : 24 January 2011 17:32:31(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
After a year or so of not using my BR 06 (Ref 0630) I took it out of the box and was shocked to see that the main housing is terribly damaged by zinkpest (skirts and cabin are badly warped and there are cracks all over) and that the tender housing is also beginning to show some damage (like paint bubbles).

Never seen anything like that and unfortunately, I had to see it in one my own favourites.

Just contacted Brawa to see what they have to say and are able to do for me.

Check the photos at: https://public.me.com/laalves Password is: BRAWABR06.
Offline xxup  
#2 Posted : 24 January 2011 17:46:27(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,010
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: laalves Go to Quoted Post
After a year or so of not using my BR 06 (Ref 0630) I took it out of the box and was shocked to see that the main housing is terribly damaged by zinkpest (skirts and cabin are badly warped and there are cracks all over) and that the tender housing is also beginning to show some damage (like paint bubbles).

Never seen anything like that and unfortunately, I had to see it in one my own favourites.

Just contacted Brawa to see what they have to say and are able to do for me.

Check the photos at: https://public.me.com/laalves, password is: BRAWABR06.



That's horrible.. I hope that everything works out for you... Crying Crying Is this problem evident on any other Brawa models?

Also - you need to remove the comma at the end of the link... Smile
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline laalves  
#3 Posted : 24 January 2011 18:05:17(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Thanks xxup, just removed the comma. No, I never seen this on any of my other Brawas, but again, this was my oldest one. It was made in 2001/2002.

In the web, I've seen zincpest affecting:

Brawa: BR06, V320

Märklin: Köf II, Seetal krok.

Reports say that Brawa is very quick to answer (read one case in Germany where they replaced the housing of a V320 in two days) and Märklin may take up to several months to replace the parts. Neither have charged for replacement parts.
Offline Webmaster  
#4 Posted : 24 January 2011 19:33:57(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,978
That it the worst I have ever seen...Crying OhMyGod Scared
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline FMS  
#5 Posted : 24 January 2011 20:51:18(UTC)
FMS


Joined: 01/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: PT
Hi Luis, how are you?


It is indeed sad to see this happen. Look on the bright side, the loco will definitely be replaced.Smile

This zinkpest issue it's something that worries . It's something related with alloys but could it be something to do with issues related to storage? Both together?

Our trains are not that cheap, this kind of situation already happened during the past...what are the brands doing in order to control the alloys quality?Confused
They might and they do, replace the items, but they should act in a preventive way rather than corrective way.

The question is it's always sad to see it happen to us as to others.
Do not worry it will be solvedSmile
Regards
FMS
Offline laalves  
#6 Posted : 24 January 2011 21:53:07(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Olá fredms,

Yes, this is extremely disconcerting and very, very worrying, regarding the future of our models and their value.

See this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest

Imagine opening a box of a valuable and cherished lok, 30 years from now and it's all in dust and small bits, like the Dinky Toys plane in the photos...
Offline FMS  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2011 22:25:07(UTC)
FMS


Joined: 01/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: PT
Olá LuisSmile

It's just like you said: "this is extremely disconcerting and very, very worrying, regarding the future of our models and their value."

Let's hope that the article is correct:

"Articles made after 1960 are generally considered free of the risk of zinc pest. Use of purer materials and more controlled manufacturing conditions make it unlikely that modern zinc articles will encounter degradation by zinc pest."


Each time i get stuff i do it with a considerable amount of effort, well I think we all do...
The manufacturers know the prices that they charge for there products, so we expect them to be trusty and with the proportional amount of quality.

This type of problem turns our investments and colections into garbage, so I still want to believe that somebody, somewhere is doing the homework!
Regards
FMS
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 24 January 2011 22:59:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,661
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: FMS Go to Quoted Post
It's something related with alloys but could it be something to do with issues related to storage?

That's what they write in German and English Wikipedia: high humidity, especially with condensing water, big changes in temperature could play a role with decay.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline laalves  
#9 Posted : 24 January 2011 23:12:00(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FMS Go to Quoted Post
It's something related with alloys but could it be something to do with issues related to storage?

That's what they write in German and English Wikipedia: high humidity, especially with condensing water, big changes in temperature could play a role with decay.


Not at all the case in my home. This is the only case I have had in my around 60 metal loks.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 25 January 2011 00:05:00(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,114
Location: New Zealand
That's real bad Luis, the worst I've ever seen. I hope Brawa gets it fixed soon for you.


This puts me off getting a Brawa 40207 Br06, which I was thinking about.
Offline laalves  
#11 Posted : 25 January 2011 00:11:08(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
This puts me off getting a Brawa 40207 Br06, which I was thinking about.


Nah, I wouldn't think it has anything to do with the BR06 model, it's most likely related to the particular alloy batch that went into the injector machine in a given day or days that resulted in maybe a few hundred loks that will be or have already been rotting away, such as mine a few others at Stummi's.

I've also read about problems with the early V320s (2002/3?)

As a caution I would stay away from the early BR06, such as the 063x, like mine.
Offline kbvrod  
#12 Posted : 25 January 2011 00:26:26(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,

Nah, I wouldn't think it has anything to do with the BR06 model, it's most likely related to the particular alloy batch that went into the injector machine.


That is the exact problem.The metal is "corrupt" from the inside.Which stinks!Sad

Dr D
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 25 January 2011 00:56:26(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,114
Location: New Zealand
Thanks Luis.

Welcome back Kevin.
Offline jcrtrains  
#14 Posted : 25 January 2011 00:59:10(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I had the same issue on the BR 06. I wrote a very polite email to Brawa saying how much I loved there models and how surprised I was at this. They sent a new body that arrived in a Canada 4 days later. Exceptional service.
Offline laalves  
#15 Posted : 25 January 2011 18:33:32(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Good and bad news. Brawa replied to my dealer who I had also contacting Brawa:

Reply:

"We know about that problem and it is one of the first 0630 which we produced.

Of course we will send the loco body for free but currently we have the problem that we do not have any spare bodies left and the new production is in 3rf/4th quarter 2011.
I noted the loco in your backorder and we will send it as soon as we have it on stock."

Solution, sure, but only 6 to 12 months from now :( . Let's wait... Either way, they are standing by their products and this will certainly not deter me from buying more Brawa stuff in the future, on the contrary.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 25 January 2011 20:58:02(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,114
Location: New Zealand
That's good news Luis. At least you now know where you stand, and when the problem is likely to be fixed.
Offline David Dewar  
#17 Posted : 25 January 2011 20:58:19(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,878
Location: Scotland
Not surprised that Brawa will do the right thing. I have always found that they respond quickly and in a positive manner. Marklin could learn a lot from them.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Webmaster  
#18 Posted : 25 January 2011 21:54:44(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,978
Good to see that Brawa is aware of the problem, and have a very healthy attitude towards customers and take full responsibility of their products. Might I just add that Heljan has a similar attitude, free replacement parts with no questions asked.

Very good for manufacturer reputation in the long run, and keeps them in business as companies you can trust and buy from. So easy to go wrong here by just seeing your responsibility end when the product leaves the factory... In small businesses as model railroading is, you really have to care for the existing end customers...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline FMS  
#19 Posted : 26 January 2011 00:18:37(UTC)
FMS


Joined: 01/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: PT
Juhan...Precisely!!!

Luis,

Please try to think only about the good newsSmile
Regards
FMS
Offline nevw  
#20 Posted : 26 January 2011 01:27:22(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,007
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
That is great news.
I am looking forward to receiving my first Brawa Loc in a few months.
(Brother to Webbies).

NN
PS BD your maths are right.

NN
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline hxmiesa  
#21 Posted : 26 January 2011 09:31:07(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: laalves Go to Quoted Post
Good and bad news. Brawa replied to my dealer who I had also contacting Brawa:

Reply:
"We know about that problem and it is one of the first 0630 which we produced.
Of course we will send the loco body for free but currently we have the problem that we do not have any spare bodies left and the new production is in 3rf/4th quarter 2011.
I noted the loco in your backorder and we will send it as soon as we have it on stock."
Solution, sure, but only 6 to 12 months from now :( . Let's wait... Either way, they are standing by their products and this will certainly not deter me from buying more Brawa stuff in the future, on the contrary.

I would say that is 95% good news!
It´s a no-nonsense statement where they stand 100% behind their product, and immediately details a plan which will finalize your problem.
It can´t get much better than that. Very encouraging!
Please keep us updated when you finally receive the part!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#22 Posted : 26 January 2011 10:29:42(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,433
Location: Italy
Hi Louis,
happy to know that your problem will be solved.
Brawa takes care very well of their customers.
Some years ago my BR95 fall to the ground while I took it ot of the box Woot, I write to Brawa and received the new shell in a week after have paid a few euro (just the value of the plastic and shipping), great service.
I've checked my BR06, it's perfect, the code is 0631.
For now I've met zinkpest only in my Seetal loco, as I've reported in other topic I paid 66,94 euro plus shipping, due to the insolvency=no warranty. ThumbDown
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
Offline laalves  
#23 Posted : 29 April 2012 16:19:42(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Hi all,

Just to provide an update: Brawa has so far not cared to provide a solution, despite repeated emails since January 2011, 16 months ago.

I am very disappointed and will not buy a Brawa product again.

Brawa = very high detail, good operational dependability, low quality materials, careless customer support.
Offline xxup  
#24 Posted : 29 April 2012 22:38:29(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,010
Location: Australia
They are now off my shopping list too! Angry Angry Angry
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline steventrain  
#25 Posted : 30 April 2012 21:31:48(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,845
I hope Marklin bring the BR06 in the future.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline foumaro  
#26 Posted : 01 May 2012 05:13:51(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,347
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
It was a little possible to buy brawa loco,now it is unpossible.Unacceptable behaviour.
Offline Marius in Africa  
#27 Posted : 01 May 2012 07:10:05(UTC)
Marius in Africa

South Africa   
Joined: 05/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Boksburg, Gauteng
Hi Luis

Who are you communicating with at Brawa?

Regards

Marius
Marius in Africa

HO, ECoS 2, Märklin C-track, any country, any design, any era & any brand which i like.
Offline laalves  
#28 Posted : 07 May 2012 13:44:07(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Well, after an angry email to Brawa I got this reply from a fellow named Thilo Zeller:

"Dear Mr. Alves,

First of all I have to tell you that the loco you have is more than 12 years old and we do supply a warranty for this loco and change the body without any charge.
This should proof a real customer support and if you are not satisfied, I am not able to change your mind.
Maybe I have to describe why the new body is still not available; we can not produce the BR06 body in black for warranty without a production of another BR06. In 2011 we announced item 40216-40219 which should have been available at the end of 2011. Because of some internal problems, we had to change the delivery schedule for this novelty. As a side problem, the “warranty” production of your black body changed also.
At the moment, we hope to have our new item 40216-40219 available in July/August so that we will have the black body available a little later (September/October)."

I can understand all this, but not the silence. Further I can see that some online dealers still have black BR06s in stock (even a local dealer has). If I were Brawa, I would ask back a loco from one of these dealers to supply me the loco body and settle the matter with the dealer. Or even propose a current BR06 model of a different colour. Instead, I reported this in January 2011 and the best I have is another "promise" for September/October 2012. Not good by any standards.
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#29 Posted : 07 May 2012 14:36:10(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
I agree, promises are nice but they are useless if not followed through in a timely manner. On top of your points since the model made of metal I assumed it is painted. It should not be that hard to change colours neither to offer you a different colour version. I must say this has seriously put me off buying any Brawa locos. Not that much because of the service. I don't have high hopes of any company dealing properly with this kind of problem. But the idea that nowadays you can still suffer bad casting issues is unnaceptable, at the prices charged their products should be right from the beggining.
Offline nevw  
#30 Posted : 08 May 2012 04:05:19(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,007
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Whilst ican feel for the victim, the loco is 12 years old and that is extending the warranty bit much.

Try to get your TV repaired for free when it is 12 years old. Try when it is 30 days out of warranty and see how far you get.

At least they are standing by the product.

Have another think knockers.

NN
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline river6109  
#31 Posted : 08 May 2012 04:35:59(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,981
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Not surprised that Brawa will do the right thing. I have always found that they respond quickly and in a positive manner. Marklin could learn a lot from them.

dave


Dave,

It nice to hear from you again

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#32 Posted : 08 May 2012 04:46:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,981
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
hi all,

Its not made in Germany, its production is overseas and unless you give the manufacturer all the details including the compositions of different metals, this is what you get.

It isn't good for Brawa and it could ruin a company in no time and especially at the hight of financial trumoil, uncertainties and fierce competition.

As Nev mentioned after 12 years no body gives a warranty, bought a white good toaster years back, some unkown brand name, 6 month later it was faulty, took it back and was told we don't carry this type of toaster anymore, so no warranty.

Although its nice to hear they are responding to complaints it must damage their image.
I like their models but a bit too expensive for me, I rather would go one step further and get a brass model.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline cookee_nz  
#33 Posted : 08 May 2012 04:47:21(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,323
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: nevw Go to Quoted Post
Whilst ican feel for the victim, the loco is 12 years old and that is extending the warranty bit much.

Try to get your TV repaired for free when it is 12 years old. Try when it is 30 days out of warranty and see how far you get.

At least they are standing by the product.

Have another think knockers.

NN


Hi Nev, all

It is indeed good that after this time they are prepared to replace the part.

I had occasion to contact Brawa some years back after the motor on the MMRC "Bergtalbahn" Cablecar (Funicular) packed up, Brawa sent two replacement motors quite quickly, and at no charge.

But, I do personally think that there is quite a difference between a TV, and a modelling/collectible item. I'm sure there are many of us who have items in our collection that might not get touched in 10 years and possibly not even know something has deteriorated so I'd hate to have to start worrying when I brought a new loco that it might only last 10 years or so, even if I don't use it - yikes.

The claim was for a bad manufacture of a specific item rather than something just worn out from normal use which is where the TV analogy might better apply.

On the other hand, ThumpUp to Brawa for actually having the replacement item in stock. From simply a logistical spare parts point of view it must be quite a feat managing inventory across such a wide product line and production period.

But the main concern expressed here appeared to be the lack of response to previous communications - you wonder where those notifications went.

It just goes to show, if you don't get a response, or a helpful one, maybe sit on it a while and try again down the track - a staff change could be all it takes to make all the difference. Some employees just have a job and do the minimum they can, others treat customers like their own and can't do enough to help.

My 02. cents Smile

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline river6109  
#34 Posted : 08 May 2012 06:46:09(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,981
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I think in any case it shys away people.the problem with manufacturers they never admit, there has been a major fault in design, materiial or quality assurance.
We are sorry for your inconvenience and we will let you know as soon as possible to attend to your query, or send the whole loco back or no acknowledgement at all.

Maerklin had probelm with the early sleek k-track turnouts, the spotwelded pin broke off and leaving the tongue exposed to possible shorts (our experience back in 1984 when we tried to open up an exhibition and had to postpone it for 3 days until we found the fault and short).
12 month later they've replaced the turnout tongues but they've send me the new revised version of it which didn't fit the old version. Never said thank you or acknowledged there was a fault.
I think they are afraid, if they would admit it, suddenly you have an influx of returns, so by keeping quite, most people don't bother asking the question or inquire about it.
One of my cars had a V8 engine and for some reason the whole wire harness was designed for a 6 cylinder engine, one day my wife drove the car and it stopped, although it was still under warranty, they've replaced the wire harness suitable for a V8, the old wire harness just burnt out at a terminal.
I asked the repair manager, knowing there is a problem, why did'nt they replace it in the first place or recall the car, his answer was: there is nothing we can do until the car shows a defect. We have been lucky, it happened in the city and not out in the vast open country side.

regards.,

John




John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline laalves  
#35 Posted : 11 December 2012 15:48:29(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Right, I am happy to report that I have just received the new housing from my dealer.

In the end, this was a very good demonstration of support by Brawa of their products.

In contrast, my dealer told me that similar situations of zinkpest, on even much more recent products, were not honored by Märklin.

BTW, the new housing is built to a much higher standard than the original one, the surface is much smoother and the paint job is superb, particularly when compared to the older one.

So, my BR06 is back into serviceable status!

In a few months, I'll be moving to my new house, very well suited to MRR and I'll be able to resume this activity, mostly paused since 2009.

Offline mjrallare  
#36 Posted : 11 December 2012 19:42:48(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 558
As the saying goes; "All's well that ends well"... Good luck with your new house!
/Torbjörn
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#37 Posted : 11 December 2012 21:43:59(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: laalves Go to Quoted Post


BTW, the new housing is built to a much higher standard than the original one, the surface is much smoother and the paint job is superb, particularly when compared to the older one.







It might be that your original housing was defective to start with. Because of that eventualy that bad casting deteriorated more.
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