Tender driven locomotives. Any advantages to these? To me it seems like it would be a recipe for derailment . Pros - cons? Maybe I just don't understand the concept well enough. It appears Marklin never adopted this concept. Maybe for good reason? Just curious.

Regards, Kevin

I think you got it spot on!

Logically, you will cut tooling development cost significantly; particularly for the Einheits steamers - which more or less shared similar tender designs.
It is also easier to engineer a tender-driven models (similar to compact Bo-Bo locos) rather than having to work out new gear arrangement with every new model to fit into the boiler (ala Marklin).

For example, a single T34 tender design can be used to push BR39, BR50, BR01, BR44 all the same. Variation of the tender like the T30 can be added to the lineup later.

Playwise, another advantage to tender driven steamer is that you can add another tender behind that steam locomotive for extra pulling power.

Creative owners might also switch the tender of their steamer as more new tenders are introduced to..

Disadvantages:
The obvious one, it doesn't feel particularly prototypical. Steamers should do the pulling, not the tender(!)

Tender driven loks generally suffer from lower pulling power. As pointed out sometime ago (by John(River) me thinks), it's hard to add extra ballast to a tender driven design for extra traction. Easier to add ballast into the boiler of a Marklin locomotive.

OTOH as I mentioned above, you can add an extra tender for more pulling power... and they're still prototypical apparently for long distance travel.

Roco, my main loco arsenal, has all motor driven tender locos, although I enjoy Roco steam locos, I'm staying away from them because of tender driven locos.

they have improved the whole idea of driven axles by incorporating a rod from the motor to the loco's main driving wheels.
I've written several emails to Roco , explaining to them, what use this rod has overall, other than keep the main driving wheels turning, according to its speed.

Would it not be a better idea, to add rubber tyres to one of the main axle to improve the pulling power.

Had several emails coming back, explaining the driving wheels have got rubber tyres. (written back: not the tender driving wheels)

My argument was, the powerful motor, the weight of the tender, is not a balanced torque distribution, having a rod already coming through, the only thing they had to do is to put some rubber tyres onto the loco driving axle.
I also explained, not having the capability to pull any reasonable weight behind it, they are loosing out on major sales.
an email came back, my idea, may interfere rubbertyres) with the brake pads .
I could see they have been looking for excuses all along and had no intention of changing a inferior design to a more plausible one.
I've even put the idea passed them, supplying the axle with rubber tyres as an option.

on the other end of the scale we have digital operated doors on passenger carriages.

I have 2 Roco Steam locos, 1 SBB C 5/6 2' 10' 0' and the DB 18201.

To get any descent load behind the SBB St Gotthard "Elephant" loco, you would need 2 of them.

The 18201, Pacific style loco, Roco bought out a second tender, which was used on long haul journeys.

Bought this tender(no motor or lights) and converted it with a motor, lights and a sound decoder and kept the ESU V3 decoder in the first loco tender.,

It may be alright on a flat straight surface but any incline or curves would put pressure onto the ability to pull many carriages, maybe empty freight carriages.

I don't have issues with the loco nor the tender of derailing

John

Hi Kevin and all,
I agree with all the previous answers: the concept seems odd and often leads to uneven lok performance.

The main reason for tender driven loco, besides cost, is "looks"!

With this, it is possible to have a filigrane "see-through" chassis, very thin rims and spokes on the drivers, etc., just perfect 1/87 proportions!

I do have a few locos like this from Fleischmann, ROCO, Hornby and Liliput.

They have spent most of their careers as "shelf queens" in my display cases

It is a mixed bag...the best ones still coming from Fleischmann , where IMHO performance on the layout still remains predictable.

Cheers

I have a BR 03 from Fleischmann that cannot take C track turnouts at speed step 2: loco stops, big driving wheels stand still - and the chuff-chuff sound goes on.
It can haul trains - but I make sure it takes turnouts with enough speed.

The typical Roco design is a good design IMHO: the Decapods have seven power axles, the Pacifics have five powered axles.
And: motor in the tender, speakers in the boiler: the sound comes from the loco, not the tender.

Piko and Roco make some tenders from metal die cast to get more weight.

Some say that tender-driven locos are plastic tank cars pushed over the layout by the tender.
A good design that reduces production costs and allows free view through cab and under boiler (Fleischmann's BR 43 is an exception to this rule).

I have to confess I don't like them at all.

I have two Fleischmann BR01 that run very poorly with their powered tender. And one Roco with a powered tender but with a transmission to the locomotive. This one runs quite well, and is very smooth. It's a BR18.1.

In any case, I prefer a powered loco.

I must say - you upset a few, I have to consider what to do with your post...

No - actually I totally agree with you Juhan! Off-course a steamer shall be driven by the actual driving axles.

I accept that my steamers are powered by oversized electric motors. I don't care too much which axles are powered as long as the loco is a good puller.

A driving rod in the cab is better than a DCM in the cab.

Does Märklin make steamers that are pushed around by their tenders?
Sure they do ...

Roco steamers run well and it would be difficult to tell that they are being tender driven. However when various bits start to fall off as they go round the layout then that is the Roco trademark.

dave

Yep!The power should be inside the loco going trough the axles, meaning that for Me doesn't make any sense the "backstage" solution!
Steam rules...at the front!

Yeah. One can hear the rattle hours before they get round da corner
And I also do remember the puzzle of plastic pieces you reported many years back ...

Hi David, sorry my fault for not putting my impressions in a clear way - so here we go ...


Heavy Metal & Tinplate Classic Marklin vs. (any) maker of plastic toys: No match

Most of New Marklin vs. all others: Really don't see much of a difference, anymore

Is there an updated discussion(s) on this 'tender drive' subject?? I would be very interested
Brian from USA

I have a tender-driven 3 rail digital Fleischmann 1113, a 1906 loco in DRG colours (as BR 13 4-4-0). They were not used after 1932 but this one still runs on my layout. It has very large driving wheels and is high geared. So it drives in a way that appears ungainly and of course is not meant for shunting in a goods yard. It did not cost much and I am happy with it.

Kimball

Edited by user 05 December 2021 06:03:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified