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Offline Kevin Weis  
#1 Posted : 02 January 2011 18:57:33(UTC)
Kevin Weis


Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 128
Location: Maryland
Hope this fits in this forum. Feel free to move if not. I'm new to Marklin and I keep hearing about HAMO magnets being retofitted to Marklin locomotives. I know what HAMO (DC) locmotives are. But what is a HAMO magnet and what is the advantage of installing it in a Marklin AC locomotive? I take it is the motor magnets???

Regards, Kevin
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Kevin Weis
Offline hemau  
#2 Posted : 02 January 2011 19:09:12(UTC)
hemau


Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 589
Location: The Netherlands
Yes, it goes in stead of the field coil in M* motors. The advantage is you have a wider choice of decoders (and better running characterics as I read). There are also decoders for motors with a field coil.
C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS
Offline DaleSchultz  
#3 Posted : 02 January 2011 19:23:50(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Hamo locos have DC motors. Replacing the field coil of an AC motor with a permanent magnet converts it to a DC motor. Hence calling these magnets Hamo magnets.

Decoders that use back EMF to regulate load and speed only work on a DC motor. That is why decoders work better with DC motors and why one should replace the field coil with a magnet.

Though Märklin sells the magnets, they are also available from ESU at a much better price.
See http://layout.mixmox.com...stalling_digital_decoder for images of such a conversion.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Chris6382chris  
#4 Posted : 02 January 2011 19:51:51(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,215
Location: Middle of the US
Dale:

Great tutorial.

A quick question for you. Where is a good place to get ESU decoders online from US Vendors? Also, do you know how well the ESU decoders operate with the MS1?

Thanks.

Offline Kevin Weis  
#5 Posted : 02 January 2011 20:59:21(UTC)
Kevin Weis


Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 128
Location: Maryland
Ok, Thanks all. Sounds like the ac field coil is interchangable with the HAMO dc magnets or are we talking replacing the whole ac motor with a dc motor, armature and all?
Offline jmcveigh  
#6 Posted : 02 January 2011 21:33:36(UTC)
jmcveigh


Joined: 06/10/2003(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Butler, Maryland
Kevin Weis wrote:
Ok, Thanks all. Sounds like the ac field coil is interchangable with the HAMO dc magnets or are we talking replacing the whole ac motor with a dc motor, armature and all?


No, it is not necessary to replace the armature or the motor shield. The HAMO permanent-magnet stators are designed to work with the factory-supplied three-pole armatures and the factory-supplied motor shields.

Strictly speaking, the original motor is a series-wound "universal" motor that will run either on ac or dc... not merely on ac. A 24-volt pulse is necessary to activate the reversing unit. If the Loko is fed with dc, simply flipping the polarity of the dc fed to the track will not cause the motor to reverse the direction of rotation.
J.J. McVeigh
Offline hemau  
#7 Posted : 02 January 2011 22:15:33(UTC)
hemau


Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 589
Location: The Netherlands
Hi Kevin, maybe you shoud specify your question. What are you going to do? Changing a field coil by a Hamo magent is only useful if you plan to digitise an analog M* motor. If you do that, the pulse controlled direction change is obsolete anyway because that is also operated digitally.
Kind regards, Henk
C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS
Offline mvd71  
#8 Posted : 02 January 2011 22:18:48(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,719
Location: Auckland,
Kevin Weis wrote:
Ok, Thanks all. Sounds like the ac field coil is interchangable with the HAMO dc magnets or are we talking replacing the whole ac motor with a dc motor, armature and all?


The Hamo loco's were Marklin loco's for the two rail DC market. All marklin did was take their original AC loco and modify it to work on two rail DC. In terms of the motor, all that was required was to remove the field coils and install a permanent magnet.
Because these magnets were fitted to the Hamo loco's they have become known as Hamo magnets.

If you fit a lokpilot decoder to your loco it can run with either the original AC motor with its field magnet/coils, or it can run with a DC motor and provide load regulation through the back EMF circuitry (not available with AC motors).

For the small increase in cost of putting in the Hamo magnet you get a considerable improvement in the performance of your loco, hence the reason that most people fit them.
It is simple to install them, and you can reuse all the other existing motor components.

The lokpilot seems to be the standard as far as retro-fit decoders are concerned, and provide performance for a reasonable price. The version produced for Marklin loco's is 100% compatible with all marklin controllers, including analogue.

Cheers....

Mike.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#9 Posted : 02 January 2011 23:12:37(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Chris, I used to order my ESU magnets from Lokshop when I placed an order so I don't have any good info on where to buy locally.
I don't have an MS1 but the running characteristics of the loco depends primarily on the decoder. not the controller.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 02 January 2011 23:22:44(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Chris6382chris wrote:
Dale:

Great tutorial.

A quick question for you. Where is a good place to get ESU decoders online from US Vendors? Also, do you know how well the ESU decoders operate with the MS1?

Thanks.




www.eurolokshop.com sell ESU decoders at a good price. Also try www.ajckids.com

The decoders will operate to the same level of performance with a MS1 as they would with a CS1/CS2/MS2/Ecos, et all.

Installing a HAMO magnet and decoder is good and relatively cheap way to convert a loco to digital running, and gives good running characteristics. For even better running, a full 5 pole motor conversion is required, but this obviously costs more.
Offline Chris6382chris  
#11 Posted : 03 January 2011 03:16:05(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,215
Location: Middle of the US
Thanks both for the response. Now I must find a suitable Locomotive on Ebay.

Chris
Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 03 January 2011 05:01:28(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
One thing hasn't been mentioned although in previous topics.
a.) buying a digital loco
b.) buying an anlaog loco.
When buying an analog loco there are several options one has to be aware of: a.) motor type, Märklin has or had, mainly 3 different of motors, 1.) large flat 3 pole, small flat 3 pole, drum 3 pole.
Each motor type needs a different hamo (permanent) magnet.
Buying an analog loco and converting it, other considerations have to be considered.
a.) the type of decoder, Märklin, ESU or other brands, sound decoder or lokpilots, 8 pin socket or 21 pin interface decoder. there are also 21 pin adapter plates, 8 pin wire harness.
the last 2 will give you a ready plug and play, remove the decoder and replace it with another one without re-soldering all the joints again.

There is a website for ESU: http://www.esu.eu/en/news/

It may help to understand the various options available to you.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Chris6382chris  
#13 Posted : 03 January 2011 05:40:19(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,215
Location: Middle of the US
Thanks John.

Chris
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 03 January 2011 06:11:47(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Chris6382chris wrote:
Now I must find a suitable Locomotive on Ebay.



Keep in mind that there are 3 types of standard Marklin AC motors, each of which requires a different type of magnet / motor conversion kit.

See https://www.marklin-user...aspx?g=posts&t=10807 for details and part numbers.
Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 03 January 2011 07:58:43(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Chris,

You may also come across new part numbers, e.g. 60901 is now 60921, 60902 is now 60921 and so on as per list Dave supplied you with.
A cheap way of buying Märklin conversion kits is the part number 60760, this conversion set has been on the market for a while and you have to make sure it is still available., sell the decoder and keep all the other parts to convert your locos (60901, 60921 only))

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 03 January 2011 09:09:20(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
60760 is temporarily not in stock at the factory, but many dealers will have stock, and no doubt will soon be available again from the factory.
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