 Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Hi,
I have some trouble with my IR intellibox controlled with PC.
It concerns the driving direction of a loco when applying the power to the IB.
The loco at the previous play was stopped in reverse direction before power off.
The speed is 0 (the IB option is "no memory at power on").
Priority given to PC control, not IB control. IB send only new motorola format, no DCC instruction added.
The P50X control word is speed 2 (or 3) in reverse direction and is sent to the IB- just after powering it and pressed "go"-.
The arrow on the IB display is indeed: "reverse", but the loco runs in direct direction. If the PC sends a "speed in direct direction" control word, the loco then runs in reverse direction, although the displayed arrow is "direct". And so on: the real direction of the loc is the contrary of the sent orders, and displayed arrow on IB.
The only possibility is to press the IB knob 2 times to get a good behaviour.
The problem is the same for my E91(39195) or v260 ( 60902 decoder)
I don't know if is a bug or some mistake from myself.
Thanks in advance for your help
Fred
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 Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden
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The starting in wrong direction is a known behaviour with some lok decoders. But usually it gets in sync. after the first reverse command.
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 Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,205 Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
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perz wrote:This isn't a bug in the IB and it isn't your own mistake. Some lok decoders are simply designed to behave like this. I think it used to be a "feature" of the older 6090s etc., but I would be surprised if this still applied to the 60902 or the decoder in a 39xxxx loco... |
Richard |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
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rugauger wrote:I think it used to be a "feature" of the older 6090s etc., but I would be surprised if this still applied to the 60902 or the decoder in a 39xxxx loco... The 6090 doesn't know about "absolute direction" - if it's out of sync, it will stay out of sync even if you reverse the direction (because both decoder and controller reverse the direction at the same time). IIRC the behaviour described here is the normal behaviour for a 6090x decoder. So it's a progress that you can synchronize loco and controller by reversing the direction. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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rugauger wrote: I think it used to be a "feature" of the older 6090s etc., but I would be surprised if this still applied to the 60902 or the decoder in a 39xxxx loco...
It was also what I though.
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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perz wrote:The starting in wrong direction is a known behaviour with some lok decoders. But usually it gets in sync. after the first reverse command. Yes, in my case they get sync after a reverse command from IB knob, but not from the PC control.
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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H0 wrote:
IIRC the behaviour described here is the normal behaviour for a 6090x decoder.
So it's a progress that you can synchronize loco and controller by reversing the direction.
Do you know what are the decoders that can understand (and obey !!) the direction bit of the new Motorola format?
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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I realize I have forgotten to thank for the answers above!
efel
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
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efel wrote:Do you know what are the decoders that can understand (and obey !!) the direction bit of the new Motorola format? 6090x obeys it - when you change direction. ESU mfx decoders have a bit that controls this behaviour. I think the default is 6090x-like. Bug or feature? When passing from analogue to digital, the loco keeps its direction until reversed. The same happens when the power is off and the controller is re-booted. Then it's rather a bug than a feature. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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H0 wrote:efel wrote:Do you know what are the decoders that can understand (and obey !!) the direction bit of the new Motorola format? 6090x obeys it - when you change direction. Hi, Then that means that the direction bit is of no use for the 6090x? It behaves exactly as a "flip flop", like with the old Mota format?
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
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efel wrote:Hi,Then that means that the direction bit is of no use for the 6090x? It behaves exactly as a "flip flop", like with the old Mota format? No. If they are out of sync (loco driving backwards, IB showing forward): if you change the direction once, both will be synchronized (now both have backwards). 6090x knows the direction bit, but uses it on direction changes only. With 6090 they'd remain in opposite directions. 6090 doesn't know the direction bit (MM1 only). |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Thanks for your post, Tom.
I had misunderstood your previous answers. Now it's clear.
But there is still a question, for I can resynchronize the IB and the decoder by pushing the IB knob, what I understand now, but impossible by changing direction using the PC.
Fred
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Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden
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The initial driving in wrong direction is a decoder issue. According to Tom ("H0") this could happen with 6090x too but I have only observed it on decoders which are newer than 6090x.
With old decoders using the old Motorola protocol there is no way to set absolute direction, so there it will stay out of sync all the time. But since the manual command to the IB gets it in sync the decoder understands the new Motorola format. I would say that this is not only a decoder problem but also a bug in the IB. If it had worked correctly it should be in sync with the lok after the first reverse command.
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Thanks.
What I wonder is how our friends who use IB with an automatic PC program manage that problem. In fact a loco starting in bad direction in a shadow station is not acceptable.
In my case, I didn't see the problem before, as I used the program of my 6051 to control my IB. 6051 doesn't know absolute direction, so, before starting the automatic play, I had to set in the 6021, and later the IB, the direction of the locos that have to run backwards.
I thought that IB controlled now with P50X protocol, that knows absolute direction, would have avoid me that.
Fred
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Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden
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A workaround that might work is to send a drive forward command with speed 0 before sending the command to drive in reverse direction.
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Hi, Yes, I will try to morrow. In the meantime, I'd like to share with you and other experts of this forum, the strange thing I observed. 1st experiment: 1-A first game is stopped with the locos backward, speed 0. (The IB option is : no memory.) 2-The IB is switched OFF, but the connection with the PC stays alive. 3- The IB is switched ON, as well as the booster (home made) to the track. 4- A PC command : speed 1, backward, is sent to the IB. 5-> We get then the behaviour described in the firs post: Loco runs forward instead, and stays non-synchrone after several direction changes from the PC. 2nd experiment: 1- and -2 as above 3-The IB is switch ON, but the booster is OFF: Tracks are not fed by the digital signal. 4- A PC command : speed 1 , backward is sent to the IB. 5- booster ON 6-The loco runs backward and stays synchrone. Then it seems that the problem comes from the signal sent by the IB at power ON, that disrupts the decoder. On the other hand, the next signals sent by the IB -controlled by PC- are OK : we just have to avoid that the decoder receives the very first signal. (there is an IB option that allows to change that very first signal (Mota, DCC..). I'll try to change it to morrow) edit: done. Changing that option (907) does not modify anything. Fred Edited by user 25 February 2010 10:49:06(UTC)
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