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Offline Caplin  
#1 Posted : 09 February 2010 16:37:01(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Hi all,

I have a CS1 Reloaded (ECOS), a MB1 and a BR 64 250 (MFX) loco on a program track.

By a mistake I had this loco deleted in the CS1, so it is no longer on the loco list that is transferred to the MS1 at boot time. OhMyGod

I have tried to enter it as a new loco manually, but the M* database available (from before the ECOS update) does not hold the BR 64 unfortunately, but I seem to remember that most MFX locos are not included in the M* database anyway, as they are self detecting, also that the MFX function no longer works with the ECOS CS1 (pls. confirm if this is so).

When I connect the MS1 directly to the program track the loco is self-detected normally.

There is no way to "transfer" a MFX loco from the MS1 back to the ECOS CS1, I can find, or is there ?

Is there anything else I can try ?

Your advice/hints are most welcome.

Edited by user 09 February 2010 23:07:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline frankie  
#2 Posted : 09 February 2010 17:10:54(UTC)
frankie


Joined: 27/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 692
Location: Italy
Caplin wrote:
Hi all,

I have a CS1 Reloaded (ECOS), a MB1 and a BR 64 250 (MFX) loco on a program track.

By a mistake I had this loco deleted in the CS1, so it is no longer on the loco list that is transferred to the MS1 at boot time. OhMyGod

I have tried to enter it as a new loco manually, but the M* database available (from before the ECOS update) does not hold the BR 64 unfortunately, but I seem to remember that most MFX locos are not included in the M* database anyway, as they are self detecting, also that the MFX function no longer works with the ECOS CS1 (pls. confirm if this is so).

When I connect the MS1 directly to the program track the loco is self-detected normally.

There is no way to "transfer" a MFX loco from the MS1 back to the ECOS CS1, I can find, or is there ?

Is there anything else I can try ?

Your advice/hints are most welcome.

Benny, what you should do is place the MFX loco on a track connected to an MS1 via the ugly box and let the MFX do the registering process.
Once it will be registered with the MS1, you can put it back on the CS1 Reloaded connected track and the registering process will start all over again for this controller, MFX locos have never been into the database.
Alessandro
I have a CS1 Reloaded!
Offline Caplin  
#3 Posted : 09 February 2010 17:48:08(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Thanks for your reply, Alessandro.
frankie wrote:

Benny, what you should do is place the MFX loco on a track connected to an MS1 via the ugly box and let the MFX do the registering process.
This happens OK.
frankie wrote:

Once it will be registered with the MS1, you can put it back on the CS1 Reloaded connected track and the registering process will start all over again for this controller.

This unfortunately does not happen.

I have two Ugly Boxes one for each controller. I tried your suggestion both without connecting the MS1 cable to the CS1 and also with the cable connected. In the latter case the MS1 previously detected loco is immediately overwritten by the CS1 loco list (which does not include the BR 64 any more).

Am I overlooking a setup required in the CS1 to enable detection, I wonder ?
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 09 February 2010 21:15:58(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Caplin wrote:
Am I overlooking a setup required in the CS1 to enable detection, I wonder ?


The situation is a mutual agreement (or mis-agreement) between the CS and the mFX decoder.

During the original registration process the CS polls for new devices by including its own controller ID as part of the message.
When the decoder receives such an "anybody new?" poll coming from a Controller ID "he has not heard from before" it will respond and initiate a communication to pass details about itself. If the decoder already knows of the ID and believes that it has already told the CS about itself, it will ignore subseqent polls.

So in answer to your question.. No it is not so much the CS setup that has been overlooked, but the clearing of the decoders memory.

The suggestion to directly connect your MS is aimed at causing the decoder to "replace" the controller ID it has a memory of, with a new one. Once this has been done then, theoretically, placing it back within the CS domain will cause it to think that the CS is a new controller and it will participate in the (re)registration process.

My suggestions
0) Double check that you have really deleted all references of the item in the CS. Consider if you may have used the loco in a consist.
1) with the MS - perform a change (rather than just do the registration) - e.g. add a letter to the name and write it back to the decoder.
1a) Maybe try - "reset to factory defaults"
2) try placing loco on the CS programing track (with nothing else to cause confusion)
3) WAIT - the CS registration can take up to 30 seconds to start and then another 2 minutes to complete
4) Reset the CS to factory defaults.

Note: Even before registration , if the decoder detects that the layout it is on is controlled by a different controller, one of the first things it should do is "stop" (bit of a safety feature). If you use the MS to set the loco moving at a slow speed, press MS stop, place loco on CS track, press CS GO - you should see the loco move forward for a short distance and then stop. While this may not be 100% reliable it may give an indication that some sort of recognition is taking place.

Summary: The symptom you describe is becoming less frequent, possibly newer decoders and CS code updates are better at handling it, but still crops up.
Peter
Offline David Dewar  
#5 Posted : 09 February 2010 22:08:51(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
What a great reply. Having had similar problems in the past now I know why. Have not noticed this recently though.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Caplin  
#6 Posted : 09 February 2010 23:06:21(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
clapcott wrote:
So in answer to your question.. No it is not so much the CS setup that has been overlooked, but the clearing of the decoders memory.


My suggestions
0) Double check that you have really deleted all references of the item in the CS. Consider if you may have used the loco in a consist. <-- OK
1) with the MS - perform a change (rather than just do the registration) - e.g. add a letter to the name and write it back to the decoder. <-- OK
1a) Maybe try - "reset to factory defaults" <-- Did "PRESET" with the MS
2) try placing loco on the CS programing track (with nothing else to cause confusion) <-- OK
3) WAIT - the CS registration can take up to 30 seconds to start
and then another 2 minutes to complete <-- Nothing happens, waited 5 minutes.
4) Reset the CS to factory defaults. <-- Did the Note first

Note: Even before registration , if the decoder detects that the layout it is on is controlled by a different controller, one of the first things it should do is "stop" (bit of a safety feature). If you use the MS to set the loco moving at a slow speed, press MS stop, place loco on CS track, press CS GO - you should see the loco move forward for a short distance and then stop. While this may not be 100% reliable it may give an indication that some sort of recognition is taking place. <-- did this, the loco never stopped running (on rollerstand/CS1)

Hi Peter, thanks for this explanation, now I understand this whole issue much better.

I followed steps 0 though 3 plus the note. The CS and the decoder simply ignored each other.

I had hesitated to perform step 4, as I would loose all my other loco settings, but with nogo with all the previous steps, I finally did reset the CS.

I lost all data, but the registration process initiated. The M4 symbol showed up in both sides and after a while the BR64 was ready to go. :-)

Thanks again, it was a relief, that my BR 64 was back in business, lonesome though as most of my stuff is stored away anyway, only a small test circle on the floor and a few recently eBay acquired locos to run. :-(
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline nevw  
#7 Posted : 09 February 2010 23:18:51(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Benny, I had something similar happen to me with MFX Locos and ECOS.
1. I accidently deleted a MFX Loco and it would not detect. I places another MFX Loco on hte track, this one HAD NEVER been loaded into the ECOS. COuld not register them,. I remeembered an old trick that i had used with ESU Decoders.

I left the locos on the track and turned the ECOS Off. came in the next day , powered up the ECOS and locos were recognised and Loaded.

NN
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Caplin  
#8 Posted : 09 February 2010 23:32:22(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
nevw wrote:
I remeembered an old trick that i had used with ESU Decoders.
I left the locos on the track and turned the ECOS Off. came in the next day , powered up the ECOS and locos were recognised and Loaded.

Nice trick, Nev. Is there a logical explanation to this ?.
I will try and remember for a next time.
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline nevw  
#9 Posted : 10 February 2010 00:25:46(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Caplin wrote:
nevw wrote:
I remeembered an old trick that i had used with ESU Decoders.
I left the locos on the track and turned the ECOS Off. came in the next day , powered up the ECOS and locos were recognised and Loaded.

Nice trick, Nev. Is there a logical explanation to this ?.
I will try and remember for a next time.



Benny, there may be a logical reason but I think it is to do with Old timers Disease.

It was the advise I got some years ago with a HAG Loco. Could not set the decoder. I was told to leave it on the track and turn off the controller over night. Dont know why but it worked.

Maybe some one can give us a Logical reason.

NN
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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