You could run two wires (one for each "direction") back from the turnout to where your control panel is. And at the control panel, the current that activates the turnout could activate a relay to switch the LED to the other colour. It's just a lot of wiring...

Viessmann make banks of switches for signals and turnouts that include an LED feedback.

Oooooeeeeeeerrrrrr! I just checked the price and it works out at about £5.30 per turnout if bought new. Considering that they will contain set/reset bistables (one one? chip) and 8 LEDs that is mucho expensive. Thinks, 'Maybe a better approach would be to forget LEDs and use good old Hornby passing switches.' No. they are even more expensive at £7.75. :o(

OK, Peco do them for £4.00 each from Rails of Sheffield. And they come in four different colours. No LEDs required as the switch position gives the same info. Cat. Nos. are PL-26 with suffix R(ed), Y(ellow), B(lack) and W(ite).

Hope that helps.

Chris.

Yes Pete. However, the Hornby ones can be joined together to form a bank. I think the Peco ones fit into a frame or into slots in your control panel. I haven't investigated yet, but I have the same problem as you, though I might solve it by using bespoke (i.e. home brew) electronics.

Chris.

PS. I should point out that my current layout uses route selection so just four switches will set up a complete, continuous oval, setting the pointwork, signals and traction power, though the latter also requires 4 feeder switches to be set as well as most sections of track can be supplied from one of two controllers. My control panel looks like a nightmare but most of the switches are not normally required,

Edited by user 24 January 2010 11:46:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hello hgk,

I wouldn't mind knocking up a circuit on a pcb as I'm reasonably competent with a soldering iron, but it's the circuit design I'm not capable of.

The idea of using the Veissmann switches interests me, albeit an expensive option, because I couldn't produce something as 'pretty' as them.

The specific ones I was looking at are the Viessman 5549 and I've found some at a similar price G* are asking for the M* 72720 switch block, although I'd have to pay for postage from Germany.

Pete

Thanks Chris,

I've already got quite a few of the 7272* switch boards (of both types) and I was thinking with the hassle and cost of the components, etc. I'd be better off changing to the V* switches.

Having said that, if you could design the circuit that would be very helpful, indeed!

I have about 30 slips and turnouts :-)

Hi Chris,

I have changed the layout a bit to take acount of the detector tracks and isolation sections. I've also reduced the hidden station to just 2 tracks each.

It might be a bit amaturish, but I've introduced a series of isolated sections in the visible station so the train reduces speed in steps. I used a series of diodes to step down the voltage over two steps, the third step being the isolated section 'in the station'. When the second train returns from it's loop it releases the first train and the sections after the isolated one steps up to full speed. I'm not doing this in the shadow station because an immediate stop isn't critical, although I might power it one step down.

I have no idea what route switching is, but I wonder if I'm achieving something similar? I though the accessories in Z were AC, rendering diodes useless in this type of circuit - but then I'm no electronics engineer!

Pete

Not sure it this will help, but Heathcote Electronics (http://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk) have a point indicator. It is quite expensive at £15.60 but is does do up to 4 points. As far as I can tell, it uses the momentary power from your normal points switch to set a continuous LED (I imagine it forgets the setting if you turn off the power).

Hi Pete,
Here's a workup I did with some old parts I had laying around just to see how it would work. Because there is no feedback from the turnout, it will power up in an undeterminate state. One could always cycle the switches at startup to bring it to a known state output. Most SR flipflops come 2 on a chip thus one chip can monitor 2 turnouts. The ic needs DC power so the turnout is operating at the same (10.5vdc) voltage which means a seperate power supply from the Marklin transformer which is AC out to accessories. Seems like there's always a catch or two when trying to do things at a lower cost. (Ignore the rest of the stuff on the breadboard it's not for the turnout.) Let me know if you have any questions.
-George
http://s220.photobucket....rklinswitchindicator.flv
Schematic: (I'm not an EE so please help yourself to making any improvements.)
http://s220.photobucket....rrent=Swposindicator.jpg

Edited by user 01 February 2010 23:26:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi Chris,
I'ts typically because of a missing browser plugin. Ran fine at home for me but
didn't run from work until I got the browser plugin. I loaded the google chrome
browser just to have a totally clean browser to start with. Do you know of another site I can
upload to as I can't host it myself? What do others here usually do for their movie files?

thanks for any help,
-George

You can upload Images to the forum. There are some How to in hte Forum Topic:

https://www.marklin-user....aspx?g=posts&t=1067

Nev

Thanks George. That worked fine. I re-installed the flash player but still had problems though. I'd be interested to see whether Pete had the same problem.

All the best from a snowy Skye.

Hi hgk,

I'm not scared yet - I just don't know what a MC14027b is, how I'd mount it or where I can get one (or all the other components I'd need to make enough of these) although I guess a G* search will help. Also, do I need stripboard of a generic pcb for these?

I would probably use the existing M* switch boxes in parallel with the track switches and would like the green or red LED's to change when either operates. is it possible (or worth it) to use a single, two-colour LED for each identifier, i.e. one that can be green or red? As all the switches and turnouts can only be in one of two aspects I wonnder if this would be the better option?

I do have plenty of M* controller transformers (with an 12Vac auxilliary output in addition to the train's speed control) and also a M* 16Vac accessories transformer so I should be OK for a power supply. I use the latter for the new style LED signals.

Chris has suggested using latch relays but he still working on the circuitry for that option. I'm happy to work long hours with a soldering iron as long as the bits are (very) cheap - budgetry limits being exceeded by quite a bit!

Hi Pete,
My number one suggestion would be to hook up with someone nearby who has a little electronics construction experience to help you figure out all the
small details, ie: which way do the led's go, etc.
One thing about the power supply - you need a DC supply for this circuit. The turnout will work fine
using dc power instead of ac, but the ic chip cannot work off an ac transformer and both the turnout and ic need to run off the same source.

I'm about as far away from UK as one can get so I don't know what supply sources are available there but here's one source I found with google:
http://uk.farnell.com/on...027-dip16-15v/dp/9665510
Whatever source that has the ic will have the other components. The diodes can be 4001 or whatever is cheapest. Chris Manvell was going to post a parts list for you.
Remember that one ic has 2 flipflops so it will monitor 2 turnouts. All the other parts shown on the schematic are per turnout.
For a circuit board something similar to this would work fine:
http://www.radioshack.co...x.jsp?productId=2102846#
It will probably support 3 or 4 ic chips.
I would suggest using a socket for the ic chip.
You can easily substitute a dual color led if you perfer, I think the biggest difference is the mental processing- 2 led's imply direction
more than a single led which implies more of a go/no go situation (my opinion only).
You need to figure out how you want to layout the switches and led's and that may help determine how the whole thing goes together physically.
You can get panel mount hardware for the leds or you can get led's with a chrome bezel already on it.
You can get terminal strip for pc board to connect to the external devices - power led's, switches.
Again it's best to have someone nearby looking over your shoulder but if not we're here to help with any questions you have.
I think if you put one together then you'll see how easy, or difficult, it is and can go from there.

Best Regards,
-George

I feel I'm being wet-nursed here...

Hi George. Relative to the Pacific, Chris is really close by, and he's been helping me a lot, although it would be impractical to pop over to talk electronics ! The components are very expensive - and really cheap on eBay! It looks like this might be the better option. Unless...

...Chris, would latching relay's resolve the issue of the startup state of the turnouts and slips, or am I confusing this thread with a different one? Assuming, of course, latching relays are designed to stay where they are in the event of a power shutdown?

Pete

Hi Pete.

I have emailed the guy I got my relays from and am waiting for a reply.

Another option, if you go for the electronic solution, is to use a rechargeable battery to remember the settings. CMOS uses so little current that it would hold the settings for months, if not years. Even a primary cell with a protective diode would keep it going for ages. It doesn't have to be as much as 10V.

Chris.

Each IC contains two bistables, one on each side.

Chris.

Try this one to follow after:
www.hobby.se/index.php?a...p;stilmall=stimall-A.php
Scroll down and you see schema of turnoutswiring with led.
I suggest at least 1kohm resistor.

Hi Pete,
I've been looking into the latching relay solution Chris mentioned and found a minature that's only $2.75 usd so I've ordered a few to play with.
They keep their position when powered down and they're double pole so there's an extra switch which can be used for a block signal or
something. They're only available in DC but as they're not solid state I think they will work ok just through a diode. I'll let you know
in a week or two if it works out.

Thanks, George, that's brilliant. I'll see if I can get hold of the bits here in the UK and give it a go.

Pete

Hi Pete.

I got my relays from a guy in Sweden (see https://www.marklin-user...aspx?g=posts&t=14184 ). They will need to be mounted on veroboard but that is easy enough. The 1N4001 diodes were £1.00 for a hundred off eBay, where I also got my veroboard. Bi-coloured red/green leds are available on eBay at £.1.50 for 10. If you are not in to eBay these days, try Maplin (not checked).

It amazes me that, after a 3 week break from M-users, this is the only thread that has come up email to say a topic I am watching has an answer.

All the best,
Chris.

Me again. I forgot about the switch. I got all mine off eBay. Watch out for the colour. I found that the blue ones have thermoplastic bodies whereas the red have thermosetting bodies. I would go for the latter as they don't melt!

BTW, Radio Shack trades as Tandy over this side of the pond. I don't know how widespread they are, but the Inverness store closed quite a few years ago.

Chris.