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Offline Larry  
#1 Posted : 29 September 2008 20:17:29(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
I realize this may duplicate information in CS2 discussion elsewhere, but I'd like to know the current consensus on whether or not it is better to wait on buying CS2 due to potential new versions, etc., or go with it now? I held off buying CS1 since I was concerned about computer bugs not have been thoroughly worked out. In hindsight, I'm glad I did now that CS2 is coming out.

What is the thinking about the risk of jumping on CS2 at this early stage?

Let me qualify the above by stating that with ANY sophisticated software and integrated electronic device that upgrades are very likely and, in fact, welcomed and shouldn't be considered negative. (I've experienced several with Lionel's Legacy control system.)
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 29 September 2008 21:11:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,279
Location: DE-NW
I think that M* will develop the CS2 software for a few years to come.
I hope CS2 won't need a hardware update.

CS1 with version 3.0.0 should be supported by ESU for a few years to come, too.

Therefore both look like a good choice now.
Time will tell. In a few years we'll know which of those two was a good investment.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline David Dewar  
#3 Posted : 29 September 2008 21:48:37(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,357
Location: Scotland
Hi Tom. I dont really think of either as an investment but for use with my layout and probably the most enjoyment for me I would go for the CS2.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline mmervine  
#4 Posted : 29 September 2008 21:53:00(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,884
Location: Keene, NH
Larry-I have an ECoS, but it looks like the CS2 is pretty nice. The intro price of ~$660 is going to be hard to beat! Unless you have a need for DCC, go for it!
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline xxup  
#5 Posted : 30 September 2008 01:20:04(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,479
Location: Australia
I would wait until after the first recall... It was (and is) Nev's horror experience with his CS that encouraged me to go eCOS in the first place... With the recent news, I am very pleased that I did..

Adrian
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Offline David Dewar  
#6 Posted : 30 September 2008 01:24:08(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,357
Location: Scotland
Adrian The new CS2 is designed with Nev in mind. Nothing will ever go wrong cos its not made by ESU.
Brand new and in full colour it even makes the coffee and pours a beer.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline john black  
#7 Posted : 30 September 2008 02:56:18(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry
<br />What is the thinking about the risk of jumping on CS2 at this early stage?

Not much, Larry. Only that they could do the same to us like they did with CS1 ... biggrin[}:)]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline Tivvy  
#8 Posted : 30 September 2008 03:48:08(UTC)
Tivvy


Joined: 01/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by h-zero
<br />I think that M* will develop the CS2 software for a few years to come.
I hope CS2 won't need a hardware update.

CS1 with version 3.0.0 should be supported by ESU for a few years to come, too.

Therefore both look like a good choice now.
Time will tell. In a few years we'll know which of those two was a good investment.


Honestly based on the little german I have, the announcment of V3.0.0 for the CS1 looks like it will make it better featured than the CS2 and with people upgrading to the CS2, probably a lot cheaper.[B)][:p]biggrin
Ep IV / V Marklin Layout
6 track dead end station, twin track loop, 4 track through station.
Under construction.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 30 September 2008 06:19:53(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,677
Location: New Zealand
Like Tivvy, the v3.0 upgrade to the CS1 looks to be very enticing. To be honest, given the v3.0 upgrade, there wouldn't be much reason to go for a CS2.

I guess I might go for a CS2 eventually, but I'm in no hurry, especially now I can get a CS1 upgrade.
Offline Tivvy  
#10 Posted : 30 September 2008 08:17:52(UTC)
Tivvy


Joined: 01/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Some people have more money than sense remeber Bigdaddy. Also some people might not be aware of the update or may have already pre-ordered a CS2 becuase the CS1 didnt do what they needed it to. Smile
Ep IV / V Marklin Layout
6 track dead end station, twin track loop, 4 track through station.
Under construction.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 30 September 2008 10:10:58(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,677
Location: New Zealand
Well Caillin, my initial reaction to the announcement of the CS2 was 'why do we need it' and 'what can it do that we can't do already with the CS1 and some software'.

The CS2 has a colour screen (whoopdee doo) with pretty icons (whoopdee do dah day!), and has the ability to add additional CS2's as auxiliary controllers (there you are Lutz, I used the correct M term!) (this feature is useful), and has USB and memory cards for storing data on, plus the ability to create track diagrams (you can do this with free software such as LocCommander).

That's all I can see that the CS2 has over the CS1. With the v3.0 CS1 upgrade, you get access to the ESU wireless remote controllers, boosters, DCC protocol, an updated interface, more booster power, along with full ongoing ESU support. To me the CS1 upgrade is far more meaningful than some pretty icons, a smart card, and a USB port!

Like I say, I might get a CS2 one day, but I'm in no hurry. The v3.0 CS1 upgrade, however, looks to be a no brainer - i.e. why wouldn't you!

That's my 2 cents worth, others may see it differently!
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 30 September 2008 10:59:31(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,842
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have yet to progress from my 6021, but given all that has happened between Marklin and ESU, I would rather go with the "totally Marklin" CS2 than with an ugraded CS1 relying on ESU for support. After all, they have demonstrated in the past they can't deliver what they promise, at least the way I see it.

Either way, I'm not rushing into ordering anything, unless my 6021 suddenly packs up!

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 30 September 2008 11:11:14(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,677
Location: New Zealand
Ray, I think the CS1 has been the poor cousin to the Ecos because of the bickering between Marklin and ESU. That's why ESU haven't been able to deliver what they promised. Now that Marklin has moved on to the CS2, ESU are now free to bring the CS1 up to the same specification of the Ecos. ESU are now saying that the Ecos and CS1 will get any future updates at the same time as each other.

At the end of the day, if your 6021 is doing everything you want, then there is no real need for you to upgrade. I'm getting the same feeling regarding my CS1 (with the ESU update) v the CS2.
Offline Guus  
#14 Posted : 30 September 2008 12:59:32(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry
<br />I realize this may duplicate information in CS2 discussion elsewhere, but I'd like to know the current consensus on whether or not it is better to wait on buying CS2 due to potential new versions, etc., or go with it now? I held off buying CS1 since I was concerned about computer bugs not have been thoroughly worked out. In hindsight, I'm glad I did now that CS2 is coming out.

What is the thinking about the risk of jumping on CS2 at this early stage?

Let me qualify the above by stating that with ANY sophisticated software and integrated electronic device that upgrades are very likely and, in fact, welcomed and shouldn't be considered negative. (I've experienced several with Lionel's Legacy control system.)


Hi Larry,

I think the CS2 has all the functionality in one controller I need. Contrary to the former controller I believe there will be no need to upgrade the hardware of the CS2 any time soon. Provided I can easily update the controller when needed,then I see no reason apart from the cost involved to withhold on the purchase of the new controller.

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline mvd71  
#15 Posted : 30 September 2008 13:04:20(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,784
Location: Auckland,
Ray, I have a CS1 and my 6021. With news of a CS2 I have considered selling the CS1, but never the 6021.

If I were in your position, I would wait until the starter sets come out, by which time we should be discovering if the CS2 is a gem or a lemon.

Cheers....

Mike.
Offline David Dewar  
#16 Posted : 30 September 2008 14:04:00(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,357
Location: Scotland
Mike I agree completely. At the ned of the day the Marklin folk will go for the CS2 or keep the CS1. Others who enjoy the control aspect of model rail prefer other brands from smaller firms and they can swap for cheaper decoders and add bits and pieces and feel proud to be different. I think this is fine as being a three rail M fan I feel proud to be different from all my two rail DCC pals.
Its all down to defending the item you purchased as being the best. Lets face it who will buy an IB and say its not for me ? or an ECOS but with the CS we can tell the world if we like it or not.

David

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 30 September 2008 16:03:40(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,842
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Well said, David!

(...the ned of the day...?)biggrin

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 30 September 2008 17:08:57(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,357
Location: Scotland
Us neds must stick together ... oh why cant i remember i dont have my spell check going.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 30 September 2008 18:36:37(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,842
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
SmileSmileSmile
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline drwhitl  
#20 Posted : 01 October 2008 01:45:09(UTC)
drwhitl


Joined: 12/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 98
Location: Auckland,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz
<br />........... my initial reaction to the announcement of the CS2 was 'why do we need it' and 'what can it do that we can't do already with the CS1 and some software'.

"The CS2 has a colour screen (whoopdee doo) with pretty icons (whoopdee do dah day!), and has the ability to add additional CS2's as auxiliary controllers (there you are Lutz, I used the correct M term!) (this feature is useful), and has USB and memory cards for storing data on, plus the ability to create track diagrams (you can do this with free software such as LocCommander).

That's all I can see that the CS2 has over the CS1. With the v3.0 CS1 upgrade, you get access to the ESU wireless remote controllers, boosters, DCC protocol, an updated interface, more booster power, along with full ongoing ESU support. To me the CS1 upgrade is far more meaningful than some pretty icons, a smart card, and a USB port!

Like I say, I might get a CS2 one day, but I'm in no hurry. The v3.0 CS1 upgrade, however, looks to be a no brainer - i.e. why wouldn't you!

That's my 2 cents worth, others may see it differently!


Pretty well said, I think.

I'm got a CS1 but am not overly fussed whether I get DCC or not. I do repairs & digital conversions for other people, but can use my old intellibox for testng DCC decoders when necessary. The only real DCC advantage for me personally is it allows a better addressing range than Motorola e.g. I've got a Hornby Flying Scotsman I converted to 3 rail and put a lokpilot decoder in it. Using DCC I could set it up as addres 472 which is the last 3 numbers on the lok tender, but it's not a real major. (yes I know, I could've used an MFX decoder, but I didn't because I had a surplus lokpilot at the time)

Anyway, ESU taking over the CS1 support does ensure development will continue, so it's probably a good thing, and the extra output power is a real bonus.

With regard to CS2, certainly the colour screen has practical attractions for me - i.e. my eyesight ain't what it used to be, and the glasses I need for looking at the screen aren't the same as the ones I need for looking at the layout. :-( A suitably bright good definition colour screen might make things easier in that regard.

It looks to me like the CS2 is dsigned by Märklin for the Märklin enthusiast who wants to buy M trains and run them on his(her) layout without the slightest consideration of what other brands/possibilities exist out there. This category probably makes up the majority of Marklin users, who knows? and more power to Märklin's arm. If it wasn't for this category of user, M might no longer exist!

The ECOS-ised CS1 OTOH, is now likely to be more a technocrat's controller for the people who like messing around with different control systems, installing their own decoders, and playing with a lot of kit from other manufacturers.

I rate myself in the latter group but for the moment I'll probably sit on the fence, watch and wait for a little while then make a decision when some of the dust has settled.

cheers
Dennis
Offline WelshMatt  
#21 Posted : 01 October 2008 02:19:40(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
I'm surprised nobody has tried to "hack" the CS1 yet - it seems to run an operating system (Linux based?) which should give options for all sorts of homebrew code and fixes.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline David Dewar  
#22 Posted : 01 October 2008 13:53:04(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,357
Location: Scotland
I am sure somebody has Matt but probably made a right mess of it so is keeping quiet. I know I would !!

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#23 Posted : 01 October 2008 14:17:51(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,677
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />I'm surprised nobody has tried to "hack" the CS1 yet - it seems to run an operating system (Linux based?) which should give options for all sorts of homebrew code and fixes.


Matt, there was a thread from several years ago when the CS1 first came out called "Tweaking the Central Station" started by plutoodie on 2005/12/12. While maybe not hacks in the extreme sense of the word, there may be one or things in that thread of use.


https://www.marklin-user...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=3678
Offline Brakepad  
#24 Posted : 01 October 2008 14:31:35(UTC)
Brakepad

France, Metropolitan   
Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 633
Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
If somebody is thinking about purchasing a CS1 right now having this new update in mind, I wonder: Why not an ECOS, then?

I assume that "updated" CS1 will be an "ECOS" clon. Having in mind that this update has a cost (and is not cheap)...Why not going directly to the already-updated ECOS?

I have only MS, but if I had to purchase a digital central...I think I would not consider Märklin products as they are too restrictive, and there are similar products in the market (or almost-identical), with much more performances, and I would not accept a product that can not deal with DCC.

Best regards.
check out http://maerklin-back-on-track.blogspot.com if you like to see how old Märklin locos are brought back into life! (in spanish by the moment)
Offline David Dewar  
#25 Posted : 01 October 2008 17:04:35(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,357
Location: Scotland
If you are looking for DCC then Marklin is of no use to you. There maybe is an ECOS forum ...I dont know as I have not looked...
Marklin make there control system for their products, the others who dont make locos etc have to make their stuff for everybody in order to get sales.
Some of our IB experts here will help you with that item which has proved popular for DCC users.

David


Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline H0  
#26 Posted : 01 October 2008 21:36:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,279
Location: DE-NW
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Brakepad
<br />I assume that "updated" CS1 will be an "ECOS" clon. Having in mind that this update has a cost (and is not cheap)...Why not going directly to the already-updated ECOS?

CS1 goes for 250 thru 300 Euro. Street price for the update should be 120 Euro.
ECoS goes for 480 Euro.

So you don't save much buying a CS1 now. And you need patience.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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