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tekin65		#51 Posted : 09 October 2009 10:52:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR <br />I really don't get what Lutz was trying to achieve over the years. ... Though unfortunately poor Cem has to cop it and be labeled as a "Marklin basher". Tim, rest of the gang, hi, I'm pretty sure even Lutz himself doesn't know what he really wants to achieve with his erratic behaviour. If he's getting paid, he must be getting paid by a consortium of Märklin competitors; he couldn't do a better job in encouraging many viewers of this forum against Märklin. I'm not a "true Märklin fan", I'm a railroad and mrr fan. Märklin happens to be my favorite brand for many reasons but mostly for it is (well, let's say most of their products) the most afforadable "quality product" there is. If I were a bilionairre, this probably wouldn't be the same; to this degree anyway. Märklin basher? Absolutely! I have bashed a few locos to make other locos. It was real fun. Would I do it again? Certainly! So, never mind Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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tekin65		#52 Posted : 09 October 2009 10:58:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa <br />I am a true fan I don't know about that Henrik, did get approved by Lutz? Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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nevw		#53 Posted : 09 October 2009 11:04:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa <br />I am a true fan I don't know about that Henrik, did get approved by Lutz? Cem. But is he also a Brave Member [:p]
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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RayF		#54 Posted : 09 October 2009 11:28:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		You're all wrong! I am the only true Marklin fan!
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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nevw		#55 Posted : 09 October 2009 12:21:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br />You're all wrong! I am the only true Marklin fan! Have you a Signed Certificate from Lutz to attest to this
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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TimR		#56 Posted : 09 October 2009 12:25:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 If he's getting paid, he must be getting paid by a consortium of Märklin competitors; he couldn't do a better job in encouraging many viewers of this forum against Märklin. ... Märklin basher? Absolutely! I have bashed a few locos to make other locos. It was real fun. Would I do it again? Certainly! So, never mind Actually you got a point there... His comments actually made me want to get a randomly selected Marklin model and bash the hell out of it; just for the sake of doing it...
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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tekin65		#57 Posted : 09 October 2009 12:29:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br />You're all wrong! I am the only true Marklin fan! Then how come I don't see "Approved by Lutz" stamp on your forehead Ray Or are you a fake "true Märklin fan" Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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nevw		#58 Posted : 09 October 2009 12:37:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br />You're all wrong! I am the only true Marklin fan! Then how come I don't see "Approved by Lutz" stamp on your forehead Ray Or are you a fake "true Märklin fan" Cem. Must be a fake AFAIK there is only ONE "TRUE Brave member Marklin FAN" and he is not signing certificates or stamps of approval to pretend Marklin fans
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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tekin65		#59 Posted : 09 October 2009 13:25:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by nevw <br />... AFAIK there is only ONE "TRUE Brave member Marklin FAN" and he is not signing certificates or stamps of approval to pretend Marklin fans Indeed, that must be it ... and I was wondering "how come there's no true fans around": Certificate shortage! Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Bigdaddynz		#60 Posted : 09 October 2009 13:38:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		How's this Cem? Edited by user 26 October 2009 03:39:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Legless		#61 Posted : 09 October 2009 13:56:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 809 Location: Leopold, Victoria		All I can say is Nice.
		Legless Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
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davemr		#62 Posted : 09 October 2009 13:58:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Please please can I have a certificate. I promise to be a true M fan and a brave member at all times. Luckily we are Marklin fans and buy their locos because as Tim says anybody here listening to Lutz would be put off buying Marklin. David. Can I suggest your certificate is marked copyright and therfore can only be reproduced by yourself on the forum. Congratulations to those who have been attacked and yet come back with a reply of good humour. If only Lutz would do the same we could have a valuable member.
		davemr
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Bigdaddynz		#63 Posted : 09 October 2009 14:09:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Copyright added.
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Bigdaddynz		#64 Posted : 09 October 2009 14:19:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Since you asked Dave...... Edited by user 26 October 2009 03:41:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Legless		#65 Posted : 09 October 2009 14:30:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 809 Location: Leopold, Victoria		Boy am I disappointed. Read Bigdaddynz saying copyright added. Being from a convict country, straight away went and saved the photo of the certificate. Then sent it to printer preveiw, to get it the right size and best of all sent it to printer. This way I could hang one up on the wall in the pool room. But Bigdaddynz must have got to my color printer and drained one of the toners out. [:(]
		Legless Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
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Bigdaddynz		#66 Posted : 09 October 2009 14:35:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		I can send you a 'non copyright' version if you wish.
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nevw		#67 Posted : 09 October 2009 14:55:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		What a nice Looking Certificate. They must be rare. NN
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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tekin65		#68 Posted : 09 October 2009 15:03:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />How's this Cem? Yipppeee! See ... I told you I was a true fan! Thanks for putting an end to the "certificate shortage" bigdaddy Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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tekin65		#69 Posted : 09 October 2009 15:05:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by nevw <br />What a nice Looking Certificate. They must be rare. NN They really are Nev, and whoever have one is a member of this brave forum Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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davemr		#70 Posted : 09 October 2009 16:23:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Hi Big D Thanks for my certificate. Managed to print (paid my dues to the UK copyright board) and it is now haning on the wall in my train room. Can I suggest that a discussion has been had on the model and we have also had some fun and perhaps now is the time to end the thread. davemr true and brave with a certificate.
		davemr
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tekin65		#71 Posted : 09 October 2009 16:48:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br />True Märklin fans and brave members will never abuse this forum for the distribution of childish pictures produced by some true idiots; Psssst, bigdaddy, looks like he wants one too but too shy to ask ... Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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dalym001		#72 Posted : 09 October 2009 16:51:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/05/2008(UTC) Posts: 67 Location: London,		This topic was quite interesting a couple of days ago... [V]
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orubias		#73 Posted : 09 October 2009 17:29:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 690 Location: Justo ahí		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br />Just recall Stephan asking you lately what you're going to complain about Märklin next. Very funny, Lutz. You seem to have forgotten that you nearly drove him out of the forum last year. You even mix up names and don't have any clue to which member's statement I was actually referring. True Märklin fans and brave members will never abuse this forum for the distribution of childish pictures produced by some true idiots; nor would they ever constantly bash Märklin or even think about that just for the sake of doing so. But that's what the "junk cave" members are really good in doing. [}:)] Lutz, just try not to take yourself so seriously... even when you try to make a "joke". Edited by user 10 October 2009 12:33:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Band on the run
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river6109		#74 Posted : 09 October 2009 18:19:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Its nice to see and hear "the loco of the month" and now to the "garbage of the month".
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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Oscar		#75 Posted : 09 October 2009 22:08:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC) Posts: 783 Location: ,		<font face="Verdana]Can we all just get along, please? We're here because something binds us: Märklin. We're not here to get divided over that which binds us. To each his own! It saddens me a bit to see that a thread like this derailed so much.</font id="Verdana]
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Bigdaddynz		#76 Posted : 10 October 2009 01:46:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 <br />Psssst, bigdaddy, looks like he wants one too but too shy to ask ... Cem. Probably, but what would you put on it.......??
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TimR		#77 Posted : 10 October 2009 01:46:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich You even mix up names and don't have any clue to which member's statement I was actually referring. True Märklin fans and brave members will never abuse this forum for the distribution of childish pictures produced by some true idiots; nor would they ever constantly bash Märklin or even think about that just for the sake of doing so. But that's what the "junk cave" members are really good in doing. [}:)] I would love to continue this childish spat over who have to had the last word - but for the sake of the forum and in respect of Oscar's thread - I have decided to call it even, for now. I have said what I need to say and hopefully you think about it. Otherwise, it's not really my problem, as it is you who will continue to have problem with your interaction with other members in this forum. Regards
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Armando		#78 Posted : 10 October 2009 08:22:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Quote: quote:Originally posted by Oscar <br /><font face="Verdana][size=2]Can we all just get along, please? We're here because something binds us: Märklin. We're not here to get divided over that which binds us. To each his own! It saddens me a bit to see that a thread like this derailed so much.</font id="Verdana] Oscar, I agree with you in what you say that "we are here for Märklin". We're all interested in Märklin items, and eagerly collect and await new releases. However, it is imo very valid too to also highlight the shortcomings of Märklin models. Just because I don't "buy it all, warts and all" (as a certain party of this forum has stated), doesn't mean that I am not a true Märklinist. Over 60 Märklin locomotives in my collection can vouch for that. The name of this forum is "Märklin-users.net", last time I checked. It is not "I don't have the right to say anything negative about ANY Märklin product" forum. You started this thread about this model. Wasn't it an obvious invitation for all of us to express our personal opinions about it? Well then, IMO, this model is BELOW PAR, and the fact that it is offered at a lower price does not make me forget about its shortcomings. But it is your choice. You can go ahead and purchase it and enjoy you BR-41. However, If you asked me, I would tell you that you would make a much better investment if you purchased any of the new toolings (BR-01, BR-05, BR-39, etc.) that Märklin has been releasing in the past four years.
		Best regards, Armando García
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mvd71		#79 Posted : 10 October 2009 10:38:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,936 Location: Auckland,		Back on the topic, I have just bought one and I'm eagerly awaiting its arrival I bought it for the following reasons 1.I like them 2. It has smoke 3. It has lights. 4. Its has telex coupling[:p] 5. It has sound. 6. Last but definately not least, it has a DCM. I like the idea of the DCM because if nothing else it has proven itself to be reliable Oven three decades. Cheers.......... Mike. P.S I think I deserve a certificate for buying one in the face of such harsh critisim
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Bigdaddynz		#80 Posted : 10 October 2009 11:37:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		You asked for it...... Edited by user 26 October 2009 03:43:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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mvd71		#81 Posted : 10 October 2009 11:41:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,936 Location: Auckland,		Yippee[^] Now the girls will think I'm really cool Right guys
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Oscar		#82 Posted : 10 October 2009 12:16:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC) Posts: 783 Location: ,		Quote: quote:Originally posted by Armando <br />Oscar, I agree with you in what you say that "we are here for Märklin". However, it is imo very valid too to also highlight the shortcomings of Märklin models. Just because I don't "buy it all, warts and all" (as a certain party of this forum has stated), doesn't mean that I am not a true Märklinist. Wasn't it an obvious invitation for all of us to express our personal opinions about it? Well then, IMO, this model is BELOW PAR, and the fact that it is offered at a lower price does not make me forget about its shortcomings. <font face="Verdana][size=2]You misunderstood me, Armando. Of course the pros and cons of any model need to be discussed openly. I myself have severely criticized an expensive model that I bought new recently, right here on this forum. But what I can't understand is why people are so easily provoked by someone else's statements. Lutz said something about "true Märklin fans" but that doesn't bother me at all. If anyone were to say outright that he does not consider me a "true Märklin fan", I would not spend a minute of thought on it. Life is too short. You can only become offended if you allow yourself to be offended. This is the internet - you're always going to run into people who are very different from you. That's why I focus on the reason we're all coming here (a love for Märklin) and I stay away from all the negativity. I came here to discuss the 37921 Baureihe 41, warts and all, just like you said Armando. I did not come here to discuss Lutz, or anyone else. This forum is not moderated tightly enough. I own a very busy forum myself (non-Märklin) and I've never had anything like this - and my forum has been up since 1998.</font id="Verdana]
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tekin65		#83 Posted : 10 October 2009 12:49:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Oscar <br />This forum is not moderated tightly enough. I own a very busy forum myself (non-Märklin) and I've never had anything like this - and my forum has been up since 1998. Oscar, just pray for Lutz not taking interest in whatever your forum is about It is practically impossible for any Lutz-free forum to have such idiotic dialogues Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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john black		#84 Posted : 10 October 2009 13:43:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Oscar <br />This forum is not moderated tightly enough. Dear Oscar , please allow me to disagree, very politely but also decidedly [:p] - I say Big Juhan does an truly excellent job in running this world forum Of 2,077 members there's only one bad apple in the box. No other place could do any better. Don't know why he keeps him but that's his decision. And for me it doesn't matter at all [}:)] The medieval kings kept a clown at their court for their entertainment - we keep a hemmerick ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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davemr		#85 Posted : 10 October 2009 14:44:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Bid D I just love these certificates. I am a bit lost as to who has one of these locos but perhaps those who have ordered can report back when received. I like telex and we need more of this facility on our locos.
		davemr
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Bigdaddynz		#86 Posted : 10 October 2009 14:50:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Mike van Dam will have one soon (mvd71).
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mvd71		#87 Posted : 11 October 2009 01:52:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,936 Location: Auckland,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Bid D I just love these certificates. I am a bit lost as to who has one of these locos but perhaps those who have ordered can report back when received. I like telex and we need more of this facility on our locos. As the proud owner of one of these certificates, I can tell you it is 100% reliable and brings me no end of satisfaction[:o)] As for the BR41, I'll let you know when mine arrives. Cheers.... Mike.
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jeehring		#88 Posted : 29 October 2009 20:42:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br />O. Well, I didn't know my Br41 has a Br03 body, and is missing a sandpipe. As far as I remember, it was the same case for real loks . The real BR03 and the real br 41 shared the same body, same boiler . ( of course there were one sand pipe more on br 41)At least they had some common parts... The chassis was different because of their different functionnality, different line also, to distribute the global weight between more axles to go on secondary lines..... Well...Lutz is perfectly right about the sand pipes , it is very well known small defect ( very small due to the age of this model which was deveelopped a long time ago )often called " funny defect" & treated as "the charm of the Marklin BR 41" ( please try to understand what I mean, my English is too poor to express some nuances....thank you) PS as someone said : today MRR enthusiasts are older.....looking at how they quarrel for nothing, as well as spending time in counting the missing 2 millimeters or 3, how cantankerous they are (some of them,sometimes.... )....even about what is considered as a hobby..say !..I'm not sure it is for the good of MRRR Fortunately there are still many young people involved in the hobby... BTW : don't be angry against me , i'm myself an old person
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Armando		#89 Posted : 29 October 2009 21:49:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br />O. Well, I didn't know my Br41 has a Br03 body, and is missing a sandpipe. As far as I remember, it was the same case for real loks . The real BR03 and the real br 41 shared the same body, same boiler . ( of course there were one sand pipe more on br 41)At least they had some common parts... The chassis was different because of their different functionnality, different line also, to distribute the global weight between more axles to go on secondary lines..... Well...Lutz is perfectly right about the sand pipes , it is very well known small defect ( very small due to the age of this model which was deveelopped a long time ago )often called " funny defect" & treated as "the charm of the Marklin BR 41" ( please try to understand what I mean, my English is too poor to express some nuances....thank you) PS as someone said : today MRR enthusiasts are older.....looking at how they quarrel for nothing, as well as spending time in counting the missing 2 millimeters or 3, how cantankerous they are (some of them,sometimes.... )....even about what is considered as a hobby..say !..I'm not sure it is for the good of MRRR Fortunately there are still many young people involved in the hobby... BTW : don't be angry against me , i'm myself an old person Jeehring, The problem is not limited to a missing sand pipe. My point is: why spend money on a model that is technically below par compared to what Märklin is capable of doing (newer BR-01, 05, 39 and 23)? It is the same outdated mould with extremely poor details where Märklin has now added a decoder with sound functions. I for one would rather wait and save my money until Märklin brings back the BR41 in a new tooling edition, which for sure they will, if the current trend persists.
		Best regards, Armando García
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TimR		#90 Posted : 29 October 2009 23:10:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando <br /> Quote: Originally posted by jeehring Jeehring, The problem is not limited to a missing sand pipe. My point is: why spend money on a model that is technically below par compared to what Märklin is capable of doing (newer BR-01, 05, 39 and 23)? It is the same outdated mould with extremely poor details where Märklin has now added a decoder with sound functions. I for one would rather wait and save my money until Märklin brings back the BR41 in a new tooling edition, which for sure they will, if the current trend persists. To me this is the main problem with today's Marklin range; it is suffering from dual identity. The newer tooling models all featured entirely different running characteristic (quieter, smoother) and higher level of details as opposed to the older ones in the range. Yet, the price difference between the two is not huge - in fact, they are hugely overlapping. I'd love if they move the majority of the DCM models in 37*** in a packaging similar to Trix models - ie for Marklin to just fit an FX 60760 decoder with 21-pin if only to get their price point at least 25% to 30% below that of the newer tooling models. Trix BR 44 can sell for around 150 Euro decoder-less of course - imagine if Marklin can sell their version for 160 Euro! Trix also sell BR 03 for just 114 Euro without decoder. Now one can't argue they don't have a place in Marklin range. ....but Marklin now is asking 220 Euro plus for BR 41 only because it has MFX Loksound...
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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jeehring		#91 Posted : 30 October 2009 02:25:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		This duality is not a problem for me ( must conceede that there are less and less "old fashion" models) I can assure you that there are still many people who like the former models very much ....just because of their strong mechanics which are the last to be designed following criterias of real mechanics (small mechanics). While modern kinematics stem more or less from "office automation systems"....(I congratulate Marklin because they keep installing metal gears) There are easier ways to make 100% accurate models : i.e. installing the motor into the tender The most accurate model in the world must be.... a static model without motorization. MRR always must be a compromise. Manufacturers always have to find the best compromise. Comparing to other industrial manufacturers I find Marklin is offering a pretty good compromise. Taking "value for money" factor into consideration....probably the best. Actually Roco is lauching a new French Steamer : first pictures came, prototype was shown, it looks nice and very finely detailled. But...1/ body is all plastic, 2/ the digital + sound version will be sold 500 E... and above all , 3/ they are still using their kind of "monkey solution" : motorization inside the tender + tranmission axle between tender and first wheel-axle of the Lok....pfffff.... this concept is 16/17 years old ( or more )! I repeat : price is 500 E
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jeehring		#92 Posted : 30 October 2009 02:43:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando <br /> Quote: Originally posted by jeehring Jeehring, persists. Trix BR 44 can sell for around 150 Euro decoder-less of course - imagine if Marklin can sell their version for 160 Euro! Trix also sell BR 03 for just 114 Euro without decoder. All those examples you give about TRIX : it is a special operation. they cleared the factory from the last stocks . There are very few. It is a good opportunity for 2 railers.( specially for the Franco Crosti which has been rarely reproduced...)
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TimR		#93 Posted : 30 October 2009 02:53:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring All those examples you give about TRIX : it is a special operation. they clear the factory from the last stocks . There are very few. It is a good opportunity for 2 railers.( specially for the Franco Crosti which has been rarely reproduced...) Hm, I could be wrong, but they were kinda easy to get even now. I also saw a Trix BR 38 for 200 Euro (with VAT) or 167 Euro (without). Have no doubt that the older models still have their appeal - having recently bought quite a few of them myself.. Anyway, I was just referring to a product marketing play on which they can do to have the older tooling to co-exist with the newer tooling... without giving the sense to customers - particularly those who are new or used to operating DC - that they might be feeling a bit ripped off to pay almost the same price for two models that can be as different as the BR 41 described here or the entirely new BR 18.3. My inspiration come from Marklin themselves - introducing 36216 - which I might praise as a creative way of reusing their old tooling.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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jeehring		#94 Posted : 30 October 2009 16:24:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		you said: Trix BR 44 can sell for around 150 Euro decoder-less of course - imagine if Marklin can sell their version for 160 Euro! Trix also sell BR 03 for just 114 Euro without decoder. I say this is not a "normal price". This is due to a limited "special operation" we have been informed about. It was at the end of last summer.(through my dealer) There were several references. Dealers had a list. For each commercial reference it was far ( very far) from a complete production batch. For Marklin-Trix : the intention of clearing the factory from the last unsold models. The goal is: to have zero stock.They want to do it rapidly. I'm not sure it is completely finished now. Two-railers may soon have good surprise about some real master pieces...( 2 railers only...[V]) For 3 railers: it's already done.
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tekin65		#95 Posted : 30 October 2009 16:37:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br />Two-railers may soon have good surprise about some real master pieces...( 2 railers only...[V]) You can convert most Trix to 3 rail. And the ones you cannot, you can run with shadow car. ... just a thought ... Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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TimR		#96 Posted : 01 November 2009 09:44:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring I say this is not a "normal price". This is due to a limited "special operation" we have been informed about. Despite this, I'm sure Marklin will still make a profit margin on those "specials" as opposed to production cost. Calculation of product profitability is a bit different with established model like this compared to newer tooling model. For one, the initial (expensive) development cost of the toolings had been paid many times over. Marklin would be a bit inflexible with pricing of newer items - thus releasing them as Insiders - no dealer's 20% discount, for example. While these older items IMO can be sold at much lower price than what they are selling them at now.. say, a 5% or 10% profit margin over production cost means Marklin still made money. May not end up selling as cheap as my Trix examples - but the aim is just to make them look like good, irresistable bargains compared to newer models. Equipping them with FX decoder means that these models could also be offered to customers that ran analog - who wouldn't need all the Loksound's bells and whistles.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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