Märklin Ce 6/8 III crocodile(s) wrong position of hatches(?)

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Märklin Ce 6/8 III crocodile(s) wrong position of hatches(?) - The hatches on the left side's box are wrongly positioned

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aclassifier		#1 Posted : 17 July 2024 11:07:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		On the Märklin 55681 the hatches are wrongly positioned. They should have been placed "to the right", but the model has them "to the left". If this is old wisdom I'd like to know where it's described. To Pietro who reported it to me, and to me, this was in any case new knowledge. This only goes for the SBB Ce 6/8 III versions, not the II versions. The latter has no hatches. Pair of hatches on the left side wrongly position. Arrows show travelling «ahead» in direction I I can confirm that this is so on these Märklin scale 1 models: "55688" and " 55686". But since I have not been able to inspect the left side of the other Märklin scale 1 SBB Ce 6/8 III versions, it would have been interesting to hear from those of you who would know about the others. I have described all of this more detailed in a chapter in a blog note: "Hatches wrongly positioned" Øyvind
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Wolfram_Stn		#2 Posted : 17 July 2024 12:46:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/02/2024(UTC) Posts: 59 Location: Grand-Est, Alsace		I might be in error, but in my very humble opinion, this loco IS a Ce 6/8 III... but I must say, I do not see the problem you are speaking of for the simple reason that I do not know how to differenciate "right side" and "left side", since besides the housing on central bridge, the loco seems symmetric to me. Can you give some light on my lantern? ;)

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aclassifier		#3 Posted : 17 July 2024 13:37:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		Since I also had the same problem in trying to explain this, I did actually try to do my home work on this one: * See the photo, where I have defined the sides * Plus the text "Arrows show travelling «ahead» in direction I" * Just think of it as running in direction I, which is painted on the loco. II is the other end * Going in direction I then is "ahead" and II "reverse" (for the duration of this thread at least)
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Unholz		#4 Posted : 17 July 2024 15:29:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,435 Location: Switzerland		I have now been looking at these pictures for a veeery long time, and I still don't understand. Which "pair of hatches" should be where...? I also took a look at the separate "blog note", but that didn't help me either. What do you mean with your expression "the left side's box"? Sorry, probably I am just too stupid to see it.
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aclassifier		#5 Posted : 17 July 2024 15:36:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		Upper part of the photo. I have indicated the problem with a yellow square and an arrow;-) When it comes to "stupidity" I probably beat you. It took me at least a day to figure this out, and another day to (try to) digest and explain it. I admit that the yellow dashed square is too thin to see. Since there is no promise on my behalf to purposedly make this difficult, I will increase the thickness of the dashed lines. Stay tuned Here it is. Rev 3, since I also flunked on Rev 2. Now I hope it's clear what Pietro and I (at least) agree on! Edited by user 17 July 2024 19:12:57(UTC) \| Reason: New figure
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aclassifier		#6 Posted : 17 July 2024 19:21:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		Pietro sent me this link, with a lot of nice pictures I hadn't seen before: https://scalaenne.wordpr...i-e-iii-be-6-8-ii-e-iii/
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kiwiAlan		#7 Posted : 17 July 2024 20:39:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,455 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: aclassifier Pietro sent me this link, with a lot of nice pictures I hadn't seen before: https://scalaenne.wordpr...i-e-iii-be-6-8-ii-e-iii/ That is a nice site with a great history of the Crocodile. Translates nicely with Google translate in my browser.


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Unholz		#8 Posted : 17 July 2024 21:19:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,435 Location: Switzerland		Originally Posted by: aclassifier When it comes to "stupidity" I probably beat you. Certainly not - I'm still trying to figure out what is wrong, although you have narrowed the area down. But I still have about half a day (or night)... Is the small inserted picture one of a different model or even the prototype?
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aclassifier		#9 Posted : 17 July 2024 22:51:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		I shot all the photos of the same locomotive, my 55681 from the shop, not a prototype. I hope some out there understand by now. And that some may fill in on the initial question. Edited by user 18 July 2024 10:30:42(UTC) \| Reason: typo
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mike c		#10 Posted : 17 July 2024 22:51:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,216 Location: Montreal, QC		The author seems to be saying that the two hatches should be situated a little further to the right https://www.bahnbilder.d...-ce-68-14305-1265874.jpg https://www.bahnbilder.d...storic-ce-68-1180670.jpg Regards Mike C

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aclassifier		#11 Posted : 18 July 2024 10:29:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		Originally Posted by: mike c The author seems to be saying that the two hatches should be situated a little further to the right ... Exactly
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Unholz		#12 Posted : 20 July 2024 10:07:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,435 Location: Switzerland		Originally Posted by: mike c The author seems to be saying that the two hatches should be situated a little further to the right Aaaaahhh... - so THAT seems to be the problem. Well, it only took me about three days to understand that the author's observation actually concerns the upper inspection flap/maintenance door. Please permit me to add two more detailed pictures in case there are more people like me here who had the same translation and understanding problem:
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mvd71		#13 Posted : 20 July 2024 10:20:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,916 Location: Auckland,		It’s hard to tell from internet photos of the prototype as the are all shots taken at an angle which affects our perception. Does anyone live close enough to the museum to check?


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aclassifier		#14 Posted : 20 July 2024 10:43:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		Originally Posted by: Unholz Please permit me to add two more detailed pictures in case there are more people like me here who had the same translation and understanding problem: Great! Are these from some Märklin models (in case, which?) or from 1/1? To to be precise.
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Unholz		#15 Posted : 20 July 2024 10:50:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,435 Location: Switzerland		Originally Posted by: aclassifier Great! Are these from some Märklin models (in case, which?) or from 1/1? To to be precise. I just stole (er, borrowed... ) the pictures from the web. Left picture is from the 1/1 prototype 13302 (still existing), right picture is from a Märklin gauge 1 model 55681.
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aclassifier		#16 Posted : 20 July 2024 10:59:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		Originally Posted by: mvd71 It’s hard to tell from internet photos of the prototype as the are all shots taken at an angle which affects our perception. Does anyone live close enough to the museum to check? Agree. However, I do have quite a few books and magazines. Plus SBB has posted lots of photos at Wikimedia. Here is a search there: Ce 6/8 III This is where I found the non-doubt photo that I showed in my blog note: SBB_Ce_6_8_III_14305_2019-10-19.jpg - which also is of the #14305, same as Märklin 55681. My original question was if any of you are able to inspect that side of any other scale 1 Märklin Ce 6/8 III model (except for 55688 and 55688, which do have that problem), to see whether this error also would be present on any of those. (I will update in my note with the "upper inspection flap/maintenance door" terms. Thanks, Unholz. Aside: For me, even if understanding "hatch" was difficult (but I looked up the word, it should cover) I asked you for help on terms, since I wasnt' sure. That's why I added the arrow pointing to them on the second picture attempt. But then, for me, after having located the place I didn't cognitively grasp it. Maybe because my brain wasn't expecting it, I guess due to my cognitive bias. So it took me many looks over a day after Pietro had pointed this out before I got the aha experience: ok, that's the problem)
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aclassifier		#17 Posted : 20 July 2024 11:14:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		Originally Posted by: Unholz Originally Posted by: aclassifier Great! Are these from some Märklin models (in case, which?) or from 1/1? To to be precise. I just stole (er, borrowed... ) the pictures from the web. Left picture is from the 1/1 prototype 13302 (still existing), right picture is from a Märklin gauge 1 model 55681. Strange, it would say Be 6/8 II on the 13302 photo. Very strange! (Have they forgotten to paint the extra 'I' ?) According to the book Krokodil by SBB Historic / Zellweger the renumbering of SBB Ce 6/8 III 14302 to Be 6/8 III number 13302 was done in 1956. Also see Remaning crocodiles And https://www.13302.ch/en/ but more at https://www.13302.ch/de/. UPDATE: At 0.59 on https://youtu.be/eEaAVglOo6I it's easy to see that now at least, it's Be 6/8 III. Puh! 13302 case closed! (But not the original question) Edited by user 20 July 2024 14:39:10(UTC) \| Reason: Added detail
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mvd71		#18 Posted : 20 July 2024 20:58:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,916 Location: Auckland,		It is also possible that there may have been some variation within the class due to modification status over time. But these details really need to be confirmed by someone with first hand knowledge of the type.


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steventrain		#19 Posted : 21 July 2024 13:52:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,685 Location: United Kingdom		Originally Posted by: aclassifier On the Märklin 55681 the hatches are wrongly positioned. They should have been placed "to the right", but the model has them "to the left". If this is old wisdom I'd like to know where it's described. To Pietro who reported it to me, and to me, this was in any case new knowledge. This only goes for the SBB Ce 6/8 III versions, not the II versions. The latter has no hatches. Øyvind Yes, I see it, Have you contact Marklin to sort out?
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aclassifier		#20 Posted : 22 July 2024 10:45:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		Originally Posted by: steventrain ... ...Have you contact Marklin to sort out? Yes, 21.7.24 11:51. Stay tuned
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aclassifier		#21 Posted : 05 November 2024 17:30:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Trondheim		UPDATE 5.11.24 My information to Märklin was via this email. Märklin now has responded in an email that the shift is an error no one noticed before production. They are sorry and will correct the issue with the next version of the model.
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