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Offline artfull dodger  
#1 Posted : 21 November 2023 19:32:08(UTC)
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artfull dodger

United States   
Joined: 31/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 481
Location: Indiana, Kokomo
Dealer Marklin layout a friend is looking to sell. I have no clue of its value and whether he overpaid or not. As much as I would love to have it, I highly doubt I can afford it. Just curious what others think it could be worth in real money. Located in the USA near Chicago.

UserPostedImage

Edited by moderator 28 November 2023 04:00:07(UTC)  | Reason: Updated title

Silly NT's..I have Asperger's Syndrome!!!!
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Offline 60904  
#2 Posted : 24 November 2023 18:26:36(UTC)
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60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 328
I think it will be hard to sell it within the US. The material is worth more or less nothing. The tracks seem to be rusty. What one must find is a collector of factory layouts. There is a small market in Germany. Anything between 100 and 500 € is possible.
Greetings
Martin
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#3 Posted : 25 November 2023 01:50:55(UTC)
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Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 626
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
There may be a few other considerations - probably dead obvious, but...Blushing :

Do the signals work to control the trains?

Do all of the remote switches work?

Is the broken lamp at the bahnhof repairable?

Are any controls included in the offer?

Rusty track can be cleaned or replaced.

Some the landscaping may need some attention (again redeemable).

One thing I also quite like, besides the layout itself, are the 0201 and 0202 metal figures from the 1950s/60s at the bahnhof (although I suspect they are firmly attached for transport of the layout).

Just some thoughts and observations...Cool
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 25 November 2023 15:34:26(UTC)
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marklinist5999

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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
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Location: Michigan, Troy
M track usually cleans up nice with emery cloth, a light oil, or if needed, a very fine grit sand paper. A coating of light oil keeps it from rusting during storage or out of use.
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#5 Posted : 25 November 2023 16:10:56(UTC)
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5HorizonsRR

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Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
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Location: CA, USA
I think it is a very nice to have, but there isn't a rabid market for these like there is for their Lionel O scale equivalents. Condition is the real question, as a restoration is a real job, but agreed on Martin's assessment. For sure on the higher end if its in top order.

The reality is no digital, and that wouldn't be a hard layout to build for $250 including the wood, track and scenery. A bit more with structure kits
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 25 November 2023 19:39:49(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,173
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Not sure but I suppose it is an original Märklin's "Werksanlage" of 1961-1962 (there were a number, all made in Germany) but here, the church has been replaced by an American-looking one.
Here is a real one in operation with typical vintage Faller houses


So for an operational layout, it is worth very approxcimately 500$ shipment additional
The street lights (Märklin n°7047) and the track field lamps (N°7048) are easdy to find
Cheers
Jean


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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#7 Posted : 26 November 2023 00:53:03(UTC)
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Jimmy Thompson

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Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Sweet! Love
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline cookee_nz  
#8 Posted : 26 November 2023 02:07:38(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,961
Location: Paremata, Wellington
It's a rare and early factory "Shop Window" layout (schaufensteranlagen). Märklin started producing them from 1959 to continue from the earlier Sales Models they built using Märklin Metallbaukasten.

There is a strong collecting community in Germany for preserving and displaying these older shop window layouts, and also replicas that enthusiasts have built.

This particular one is number 0043 and was available in 1960, here is the info from the catalogue "Sales Models for 1960. There can be slight variations between them. It was only available to order in 1960 and was 390 DM to the dealer, discounts often applied.

1960 - Sales Models - p03 (0043).jpg

The value of it is very subjective and basically comes down to what someone is willing to pay on the day, but I would personally expect at least in the low-mid hundreds myself, dependant on actual condition, what works (or not), any rolling stock the might come with it, etc.

I've heard there are other examples in the US but I have not personally documented any.

Here in NZ I know of around half a dozen that have survived, there are two in our own club (donations from the former NZ importer), I also own one, there's at least one in Auckland and a further one that was in Rotorua, then went to Tauranga, but have since lost track of and I suspect may now be in Christchurch.

I encourage someone (anyone) to grab this while they can and keep it from being possibly scrapped, it's too good for that. They usually do not require much work to get them operational again and are enjoyable in their own way to see running automatically as they were originally intended.

I've amended the subject title for wider appeal
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#9 Posted : 26 November 2023 02:30:16(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,961
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: 60904 Go to Quoted Post
I think it will be hard to sell it within the US. The material is worth more or less nothing. The tracks seem to be rusty. What one must find is a collector of factory layouts. There is a small market in Germany. Anything between 100 and 500 € is possible.


I'm not so sure, as per my own post, these have definite appeal to the right person.

Hopefully this post will ensure someone is able to preserve it. ThumpUp
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#10 Posted : 26 November 2023 03:04:30(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,961
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
I think it is a very nice to have, but there isn't a rabid market for these like there is for their Lionel O scale equivalents. Condition is the real question, as a restoration is a real job, but agreed on Martin's assessment. For sure on the higher end if its in top order.

The reality is no digital, and that wouldn't be a hard layout to build for $250 including the wood, track and scenery. A bit more with structure kits


Awareness is one thing. Many people don't know much about this side of Märklin's activities (Sales Promotion). I certainly didn't until relatively recently in my Märklin life.

Posters and signs which enthusiasts love to decorate their train rooms with were just taken for granted although still hard to find. But I never thought about things like when they were produced, and how Dealers even knew about them.

Obvious in hindsight, but as I said I just never thought about it. You don't know what you don't know as the saying goes.

That layout will definitely appeal to a few people if they know about it.



Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#11 Posted : 26 November 2023 12:37:01(UTC)
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Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 626
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
cookee,

Sounds like NZ is a "Safe Haven" for Märklin shop layouts ThumpUp Woot

And I do love this one, but am not sure SWMBO will agree - I think deep pockets are expected, even with our approximations here (at least I also live in the US, so shipping is not as "problematic"), but still I also do not want this to be scrapped...perhaps some "sparkly" thing for her? RollEyes

And if a few things do not work (signals control; remote switches) I can run around to make sure there are no crashes! Sneaky
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline sewh800  
#12 Posted : 26 November 2023 12:58:26(UTC)
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sewh800

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: artfull dodger Go to Quoted Post
Dealer Marklin layout a friend is looking to sell. I have no clue of its value and whether he overpaid or not. As much as I would love to have it, I highly doubt I can afford it. Just curious what others think it could be worth in real money. Located in the USA near Chicago.
UserPostedImage


I own a number of factory layouts & would want to save this from being scrapped, if no one else is going to buy it.
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#13 Posted : 26 November 2023 13:28:05(UTC)
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Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 626
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
sewh800,

Please! Go for it! Cool Save it!BigGrin (I fear it is outside of my...um...financial situation (unless I have misread)Love and not even sure how much to ship it from Chicago to Florida...)
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline cookee_nz  
#14 Posted : 26 November 2023 21:30:33(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,961
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: artfull dodger Go to Quoted Post
Dealer Marklin layout a friend is looking to sell. I have no clue of its value and whether he overpaid or not. As much as I would love to have it, I highly doubt I can afford it. Just curious what others think it could be worth in real money. Located in the USA near Chicago.
UserPostedImage


Mike, do you think you are going to to be able to get this?

Be great if you could, and as you can see there's a bit of interest but of course you have first-refusal.

But if it's out of your reach, would be nice to see it go to another forum member.

Do you know (or can you reveal) how much the seller is asking?

Cheers

Cookee

Edited by user 28 November 2023 04:29:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#15 Posted : 28 November 2023 03:59:26(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,961
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#16 Posted : 29 November 2023 00:45:35(UTC)
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Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 626
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
While I hesitate to mention this...RollEyes

If provenance to FAO Schwarz (or Macy's or whomever), and Märklin construction stamps/codes on the underside can be verified, that might raise the value a little, but again for collectors' benefit. (I mention this because of the changes in structures (would Märklin have changed them for the American market - I suspect not, but I have been wrong before))Mellow Just a random thought....Blushing

Whisper Mode On I amend my comment to sewh800 as I have heard that the asking price is somewhat startling Scared (at least to me...) Sorry Whisper Mode Off

Caveat: Peace. I fully understand that it is his layout and he may name his price. I have no arguments there.
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline sewh800  
#17 Posted : 29 November 2023 03:00:20(UTC)
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sewh800

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: ,
Two of my layouts have documented paperwork from FAO Schwarz & it doesn't make much difference - the size & quality of the layout are more important. These smaller layouts are the most commonly found, as they were suitable for hobby shop windows. Larger ones sat in department stores and were much harder to save, given their size & difficulty in moving intact.

What is the asking price anyway?
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#18 Posted : 29 November 2023 11:58:20(UTC)
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Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 626
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
sewh800,

I am not what one might call a "collector" so I was not sure about provenance and paperwork trails. Thank you!

(PM sent)

Edited by user 30 November 2023 23:06:43(UTC)  | Reason: Clarification and spelling error

Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#19 Posted : 30 November 2023 23:09:36(UTC)
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Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 626
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Just wondering if there is any further action going on this layout. Just sitting here, breaking that old 10th commandment (over and over and...)Cool (sorry, but the fundage just is not available...Blushing )
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline cookee_nz  
#20 Posted : 04 December 2023 10:10:14(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,961
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Go to Quoted Post
Just wondering if there is any further action going on this layout. Just sitting here, breaking that old 10th commandment (over and over and...)Cool (sorry, but the fundage just is not available...Blushing )


Seems Mike is irregular in his visits so he may not have even seen these questions yet.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#21 Posted : 04 December 2023 12:10:31(UTC)
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Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 626
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Right-O! Thanks cookee! Cool

Whisper Mode On p. s. I checked the post on m-users fb, and there has been no update there either. Whisper Mode Off... I just do not want this great piece of history to just vanish!Scared

Edited by user 04 December 2023 16:24:31(UTC)  | Reason: Whisper Mode Post Script

Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline Marklin3000Fan  
#22 Posted : 19 January 2024 15:51:17(UTC)
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Marklin3000Fan

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Florida, Fort Lauderdale
Is this layout still available?
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Offline cookee_nz  
#23 Posted : 21 January 2024 05:06:20(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,961
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Marklin3000Fan Go to Quoted Post
Is this layout still available?


Who would know, the original author has decided not to update despite a flurry of advice and interest in the topic.

We can only hope he was able to negotiate to buy and make good use of it.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#24 Posted : 21 January 2024 11:09:28(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,677
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Go to Quoted Post
Sounds like NZ is a "Safe Haven" for Märklin shop layouts ThumpUp Woot


Yep, and someone was recently right at home......

20231118_121029.jpg

20231118_121043.jpg
(To the left of the Wonderwheel in the case was this factory shop layout 'Kleinbahn')
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Offline cookee_nz  
#25 Posted : 22 January 2024 03:43:27(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,961
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hmmmm, looks vaguely familiar
Cookee
Wellington
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