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Offline einotuominen  
#1 Posted : 13 November 2023 10:47:15(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Hi guys,

I'm now 14 months in to the hobby and my first layout is roughly 80% done. Just a few trees, lights and painting of structures to do.

However during the past 14 months I've learned a lot and I am now pained by the design mistakes that I've made.

I have figured out things that I wish to have and to do:

- Continuous mainline trafic on a folded dog bone. Half visible, half in a shadow station

- Branch line freight trafic. Lot of industries along a branch line that is mostly independent of the main line

- No inclines/declines on visible part of the layout

- Maximise visible track

- Better overall construction quality

- Wiring taken into account in the design

- Two train drivers at the same time, one person on the branch line, one on the main line

- Industries spread out the entire layout, so you need to actually drive the branch line from point to point

I have a limited space of 310 x 118 cm. This means I need to use R1. I've had no troubes with R1 so far, so it is ok for me.

During the past month I've been trying to fit all my requirements on the space I have and here's a plan.

What do you guys think?

Double shelf layout - old layout revised TOP Large.jpeg
Double shelf layout - old layout revised SHADOW Large.jpeg

BR,
Eino
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Offline Carim  
#2 Posted : 13 November 2023 11:30:15(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 648
Location: London
Hi,

I liked the overall design. However, I would be inclined to put the chemical plant area at the top on a slightly higher level to distinguish it from the main yard; one cm would be sufficient just to break-up the scene visually.

Carim
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Offline hxmiesa  
#3 Posted : 13 November 2023 12:08:58(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,518
Location: Spain
The dog-bone format is indeed the best! ThumpUp
BUT... in your case I would consider making the main line single-tracked, with a return-loop in each end (thus still a dog-bone).
The ramp going up and down to the shadow-station can have a siding for crossing trains.
The shadow-station can then have MANY more sidings (some of them blind of course).
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline einotuominen  
#4 Posted : 13 November 2023 12:56:36(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I liked the overall design. However, I would be inclined to put the chemical plant area at the top on a slightly higher level to distinguish it from the main yard; one cm would be sufficient just to break-up the scene visually.

Carim


Thanks Carim! Agreed, this is actually my intention. 1cm so the incline is not that noticable, but makes some visual distinction when looked at model level. Also it will give better clearance for the tunnel going to the shadow station.

Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
The dog-bone format is indeed the best! ThumpUp
BUT... in your case I would consider making the main line single-tracked, with a return-loop in each end (thus still a dog-bone).
The ramp going up and down to the shadow-station can have a siding for crossing trains.
The shadow-station can then have MANY more sidings (some of them blind of course).


Hmm... I have to play around with this idea. However I wish to have 2-3 trains riding a continuous loop on the main and with single track to the shadow, it will end in a race condition on who gets to ride the ramp down/up... But I'll play with the idea. More shadow station tracks would not hurt, but it will be accessible by hand, so staging different trains by hand is not going to be that much of a problem... Goog idea though.

BR,
Eino



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Offline marklinist5999  
#5 Posted : 13 November 2023 13:47:52(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,992
Location: Michigan, Troy
It's nice, and if you like it, that's what is important. I would put a station in the center on the triple diagonal.
Offline einotuominen  
#6 Posted : 13 November 2023 13:55:30(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
It's nice, and if you like it, that's what is important. I would put a station in the center on the triple diagonal.


Good idea, there could be a small passenger platform and a station house next to the "shared" main line / yard run around right between the Commissary House and Grain elevator. It would propably give a nice scene blocker for the view when looked from around the commercial street.

Yeah I like it, but is it functional enough? Confused BigGrin There certainly is a compromise with the amount of runarounds. For example to the coal industry and the furniture factory at the front.

BR,
Eino

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Offline hxmiesa  
#7 Posted : 13 November 2023 17:34:36(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,518
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
The dog-bone format is indeed the best! ThumpUp
BUT... in your case I would consider making the main line single-tracked, with a return-loop in each end (thus still a dog-bone).
The ramp going up and down to the shadow-station can have a siding for crossing trains.
The shadow-station can then have MANY more sidings (some of them blind of course).


... and with single track to the shadow, it will end in a race condition on who gets to ride the ramp down/up...

That is why I am saying that the ramp could hold a siding!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#8 Posted : 14 November 2023 08:44:54(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,656
Location: Hybrid Home
How about adding a crossover - see image? Like that:

(1) the inner curve doubles as run-around for branch line shunter;
(2) the outer curve doubles as long passing track for mainline train.

crossover-added.jpg

How much clearance will the shadow station have?

P.S.: Double-slip turnouts are quite rare in America.
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Offline einotuominen  
#9 Posted : 14 November 2023 12:01:10(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
How about adding a crossover - see image? Like that:

(1) the inner curve doubles as run-around for branch line shunter;
(2) the outer curve doubles as long passing track for mainline train.


How much clearance will the shadow station have?

P.S.: Double-slip turnouts are quite rare in America.


Hi,

this is an excelent idea and will remove some of the issues related on main line being occupied while doing yard switching. However if I decide to do the +1-2 incline to the industry area b ehind the yard, then this turnout can't be addded...

But that's something I need to ponder with.

-Eino

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#10 Posted : 14 November 2023 12:37:59(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,656
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
However if I decide to do the +1-2 incline to the industry area b ehind the yard, then this turnout can't be addded...
The crossover could be in the curve instead:
crossover.jpg

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Offline einotuominen  
#11 Posted : 14 November 2023 12:47:29(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
However if I decide to do the +1-2 incline to the industry area b ehind the yard, then this turnout can't be addded...
The crossover could be in the curve instead:
crossover.jpg



I will definitely do this as it also creates an additional run around track. The space I have will not make it possible to fully isolate main line from switching anyways. So it's a compromise.

Thanks!

-Eino

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Offline einotuominen  
#12 Posted : 14 November 2023 17:11:11(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post


How much clearance will the shadow station have?

P.S.: Double-slip turnouts are quite rare in America.


Missed this on the first reply.

Roughly 20cm clearance. The gradient is going to be steep, but I have steeper one currently and all works.

Good to know about the prototypics. I’m just goin after a certain look and feel, not that much of prototypics. And I’ll be running US and German stuff anyway so it has to remain somewhat ”neutral”.

-Eino
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Offline PeFu  
#13 Posted : 15 November 2023 07:16:00(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,174
I like the layout and dogbone topology! I also suggest you remain with the double-track: With the adjustments discussed above, and by applying relevant blocks on the line, you can derive very intense traffic on the layout!

Maybe you should consider to have your shadow station staging tracks along the layout edge instead, according to the red ”lines” below? Yes, they could be a bit shorter, however this could be great for access purposes.

Paper.Journal.1.jpeg
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10 | Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn on the Marklin-Users Forum and on Youtube
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Offline einotuominen  
#14 Posted : 15 November 2023 07:31:41(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post


Maybe you should consider to have your shadow station staging tracks along the layout edge instead, according to the red ”lines” below? Yes, they could be a bit shorter, however this could be great for access purposes.

Paper.Journal.1.jpeg


Hi,

This is a great idea! For staging purposes, these do ’t neccessarily have to be digitally controled (running out of decoders, so investments are required)…

Thanks!

-Eino
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#15 Posted : 15 November 2023 12:14:13(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,656
Location: Hybrid Home
Roughly 20cm clearance in the shadow station: Very good!
ThumpUp

Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
And I’ll be running US and German stuff anyway so it has to remain somewhat ”neutral”.
So did I on my former layout "Slumburg", until I overcame my personality split by saying goodbye to the German horde a decade ago.
SlAtf.jpg
Offline einotuominen  
#16 Posted : 16 November 2023 06:07:23(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Roughly 20cm clearance in the shadow station: Very good!
ThumpUp

Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
And I’ll be running US and German stuff anyway so it has to remain somewhat ”neutral”.
So did I on my former layout "Slumburg", until I overcame my personality split by saying goodbye to the German horde a decade ago.
SlAtf.jpg


Let us see what happens to me! BigGrin I really love the german stuff too.

-Eino

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#17 Posted : 16 November 2023 12:09:06(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,656
Location: Hybrid Home
Your approach reminds me of a small shunting layout design discussed 8 years ago:

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
[...]
Here is my idea.
Yard A has 4 sidings, the switch lead allows a shunting (switcher) loco to go back and forth without disturbing the other yards.
(Could incorporate a run around loop in the first two sidings).
Yard B is larger, and the line to yards A and C is used as the switch lead.
Yard C is presumably an industry, which requires the same lead as A, so that operating there will require synchronising with yard B.

With the 2 separate switch leads, both A and B yards can be operated or shunted independently.
UserPostedImage

regards
Kimball

Kimball's above contribution is post #12 in below thread and refers to another trackplan presented the preceding post #7 of the same thread:

https://www.marklin-user...-in-H0-scale#post498242=

Edited by user 16 November 2023 18:23:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline einotuominen  
#18 Posted : 17 November 2023 10:01:08(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Your approach reminds me of a small shunting layout design discussed 8 years ago:
...


This looks like a fun switching layout. The yards of course are much larger than what I can have, cause I want to have running track sections also.

-Eino

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Offline einotuominen  
#19 Posted : 13 February 2024 08:32:08(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Kaarina
Hey guys,

I’ve been busy constructing the new layout during january and february. Here’s a short progress video:
?si=AjXPpCWLB6GPISzw

Currently most of the wiring has been done (not shown on the video LOL ) and it came out nice and clean with cable spirals and all devices in a nice row under the shadow station at the front end of the layout. For easy access!

51 contact tracks for Rocrail automation, which has also mostly been configured already!

-Eino
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