Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

4 Pages«<234
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline sudibarba  
#151 Posted : 08 November 2020 01:41:25(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Marklin has always protected the older systems and kept everything vertically functional.

I hope they continue that philosophy. Of course, as I have huge amounts of C Track and M track

I am not interested in a change.

Eric
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by sudibarba
Offline Mr. Ron  
#152 Posted : 27 November 2020 23:58:57(UTC)
Mr. Ron

United States   
Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 311
Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
My! this has been an interesting and long discussion of 3 vs 2 rail. I am 86 and can remember back when model railroaders laid their own track and switches. Way back then, there was no ready track unless you went with Lionel, Marklin, American Flyer or Marx. Everything was hand laid track; even the ties had to be hand cut for use. I remember a childhood friend of mine had a Marklin train using the old style raised 3rd rail. At the time, I was just getting into 2 rail HO, My friend's Marklin train was always running without problems while my 2 rail trains wouldn't run reliably. O scale (non Lionel) used outside 3rd rail which was very reliable, though not very prototype. Steam locomotives with an outside 3rd rail pickup wasn't proto, but one didn't really notice. The pickups were a piece of wire spring rubbing on the 3rd rail. There were models of electric locomotives with the same outside 3rd rail that was more true to prototype. In the U.S. there was the outside 3rd rail system used mostly in the large cities and subway systems and the overhead wire system used on the interurban systems between cities. These were extensions of the transcontinental steam rail lines. Railroads like the Milwaukee, Northern and Virginian used overhead wire on their long routes. The use of electricity was chosen due to the cost and availability of electric power. When diesels came along, everything changed with the demise of steam and long distance wire. As Americans, we naturally took up 2 rail as we rejected any 3 rail models which were called "tinplate" and considered toys for around the Christmas tree. As for the popularity of 2 rail over 3 rail, serious modelers as opposed to children, wanted to be considered "serious" model railroaders. Even today, Marklin is still considered "tinplate", but has it's following, I for one being a long time 2 railer, have switched over to 3 rail. Today's 2 rail is completely changed from the way it was 80 years ago. Much less emphasis today is placed on building models, either from kits or scratch built. Instead it consists mostly of "toss it up in the air and it comes down full assembled and ready to run". As a result , craftsmanship has lessened in favor of the ready-to-run train system. I guess people now-a-days don't have enough free time to devote to model building. IT's only the old guys, like myself who still have the time (although diminishing) and patience to build. Due to age, I have switched to 3 rail so I can get a layout up and running quickly. I do like the European prototype models and being American, that really doesn't bother me. It's MY railroad and I can run it any way I want. I may run American cars with German locomotives. I would also like to point out; 3rail doesn't lend itself to hand laid track methods. When you use Marklin track sections, what you get is it; not much you can do. When you use 3 rail track, you are committed to the 3 rail system. 2 rail systems allow you to design track in ways that can't be done with 3 rail. Personally, I like the realism of 2 rail track and it's cars and locos. It has come a long way up from the Strombecker wood locomotive to the present magnificent models. Again, for us old timers, DCC leaves us out in the cold (can't teach an old dog new tricks). I'm not sure if I have answered the OT at all, but would like to contribute to the discussion anyway I can.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Mr. Ron
Offline charlesb2255  
#153 Posted : 15 September 2023 04:38:25(UTC)
charlesb2255

United States   
Joined: 15/09/2023(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Florida, West Palm Beach
I model the Pennsylvania RR in the 1950. I created a 3 rail AC version of the GG1 so I could run passenger trains of the that era.

The reason I chose marklin is for the fact that they had a system for overhead catenary. Try creating a reverse loop in DC for that.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by charlesb2255
Offline mike c  
#154 Posted : 15 September 2023 05:23:58(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,923
Location: Montreal, QC
Actually overhead catenary with DC was a relatively easy way to avoid the problems with 2 rail DC. When using a catenary, the + was always the catenary and the - was always one (or both rails). When a locomotive would run on a reverse loop with both tracks used for -, there was never an issue with a short. When the tracks were separated into + and -, it created a short when the loop closed.

This enabled many modellers to run 3 rail AC models using the track and the centre rail and to run 2 rail DC models using the track and the catenary on the same layout.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline river6109  
#155 Posted : 15 September 2023 13:01:25(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,749
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Actually overhead catenary with DC was a relatively easy way to avoid the problems with 2 rail DC. When using a catenary, the + was always the catenary and the - was always one (or both rails). When a locomotive would run on a reverse loop with both tracks used for -, there was never an issue with a short. When the tracks were separated into + and -, it created a short when the loop closed.

This enabled many modellers to run 3 rail AC models using the track and the centre rail and to run 2 rail DC models using the track and the catenary on the same layout.

Regards

Mike C


This is exactly what I do with my electric locos, of course it doesn't work with steam or diesel locos., I've also noticed some modellers use the overhead for interior lights in carriages on a separate power supply

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Goofy  
#156 Posted : 16 September 2023 07:15:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,042
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Loop two rail track back around on itself and you have your answer. The three rail system eliminates the polarity issues when doing layouts that are more than simple loops.


What issues?
I have no problem by use two rail polarity by use reverse-loop digital modul.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#157 Posted : 16 September 2023 07:26:39(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,042
I agree that it is more easier way to build up Märklin layout by use Märklin tracks but it´s more expensive than two rail.
There are still fans who support Märklin by tradition.
There is always pro and con by start a hobby for example train models and what kind of track type should i use today.
In fact does pro train modeller do have experience and can tell story about Märklin tracks and two rail tracks.
I don´t think Märklin will stop produce theirs Märklin tracks so long the company still works.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline amartinezv  
#158 Posted : 16 September 2023 12:54:12(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 320
Location: Madrid,



Hello Good morning

I think the 3-lane system is the best. We all know its advantages.

But I think it has two problems, although these only affect a very small part of the fans.

The first is that if you want to make a very realistic layout with very large radius turnouts, you have the problem that it is very difficult to get the current collector slider over the rails on a very slender turnout.

The second problem, which only affects heavy use layouts, for example MiWuLa or Merklingen, is that the pukos wear out due to the friction of the sliders and disappear, in the two mentioned installations, they started with K-track, and now they have changed to the 2-rail system.

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by amartinezv
Offline marklinist5999  
#159 Posted : 16 September 2023 12:54:50(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,195
Location: Michigan, Troy
More choice and flexibility. It isn't like both types never experience a spot on a layout where a train will pause or stop.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by marklinist5999
Offline petestra  
#160 Posted : 16 September 2023 13:04:31(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,844
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
As for me, the choice was very clear. We, my brothers and I, grew up in the late 50s/early 60s. Dad had American Flyer and Lionel trains. At around

7 or 8, I got the Tyco DC HO set "General", Civil War era train. It was ALWAYs derailing and never ran right, in spite of dad making me a board layout with

tracks tacked down. I lost interest. Then, one Christmas back then, I saw the fantastic, huge Märklin show layout at FAO Schwartz in Manhattan and I was hooked with

Märklin then and never looked back. The multi-train operation with signals just blew me away! Cheers from Peter. BigGrin
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by petestra
Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#161 Posted : 16 September 2023 20:06:13(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

United States   
Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 293
Location: New York City
Hallo Gentlemen,
Back in mid 1960 my Christmas meant a tall fir tree, a circle of Märklin M -track on the floor, three or four wagons and a steam locomotive and of course a blue transformer – And … and my Dad on his knees playing with them… and me heh … sitting in the corner and watching and crying aloud over the whole situation !

For many folks ,frankly it is an essential part of Christmas - Märklin model H0 railroad set.

And there is no doubt in my mind that for sure, Märklin H0 starter sets will be once again lying under many festively decorated fir trees this year at Christmas, making not only children's eyes sparkle and glitter but some adults as well ;)
Märklin always had a great sense of appeal to children and adults regardless if it was permanent layout or so-called carpet bahn.Those trains were robust and reliable even in the hands of children… not like Roco or Fleischmanns
My Regards to all of you,
Marklineisenbahn
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Marklineisenbahn
Offline Mark5  
#162 Posted : 16 September 2023 20:26:49(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
"pukos wear out due to the friction of the sliders and disappear,"
Blink

I have never heard this before.
Would that happen on any other layout than MiWuLa?
(1000s of hours of use)

Has anyone every had this happen? I know if you lean on or push down the pukos by accident then yes, it will have contact issues... but "wear out due to friction of the sliders" I highly doubt any normal layout would wear out. Please correct me if I presume. Its seems the sliders wear out first. Does K track wear out sliders more quickly is another question? I don't know.




Originally Posted by: amartinezv Go to Quoted Post

....
The second problem, which only affects heavy use layouts, for example MiWuLa or Merklingen, is that the pukos wear out due to the friction of the sliders and disappear, in the two mentioned installations, they started with K-track, and now they have changed to the 2-rail system.
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline petestra  
#163 Posted : 16 September 2023 21:05:37(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,844
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
"pukos wear out due to the friction of the sliders and disappear,"
Blink

I have never heard this before.
Would that happen on any other layout than MiWuLa?
(1000s of hours of use)

Has anyone every had this happen? I know if you lean on or push down the pukos by accident then yes, it will have contact issues... but "wear out due to friction of the sliders" I highly doubt any normal layout would wear out. Please correct me if I presume. Its seems the sliders wear out first. Does K track wear out sliders more quickly is another question? I don't know.




Originally Posted by: amartinezv Go to Quoted Post

....
The second problem, which only affects heavy use layouts, for example MiWuLa or Merklingen, is that the pukos wear out due to the friction of the sliders and disappear, in the two mentioned installations, they started with K-track, and now they have changed to the 2-rail system.



Hi Mark. I use old M track and C track on my layout and I still have some old M track from my first 1966 layout. No problems. Cheers, Peter.BigGrin

UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by petestra
Offline Alsterstreek  
#164 Posted : 16 September 2023 22:05:01(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,690
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: amartinezv Go to Quoted Post
The second problem, which only affects heavy use layouts, for example MiWuLa or Merklingen, is that the pukos wear out due to the friction of the sliders and disappear, in the two mentioned installations, they started with K-track, and now they have changed to the 2-rail system.

The Miniatur-Wunderland website explains:

"The Roco Line track is used in our Hamburg, Scandinavia and Italy sections. Why did we use Roco and not Märklin? Because there is much more rolling stock available for two-line track, so we were spared having to convert the material. As tram track or in the harbour area, the two-rail track is generally excellent because you can also lay road paving between the rails without interference."

Source (German): https://www.miniatur-wun...modellbahn/gleissysteme/
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Offline Goofy  
#165 Posted : 17 September 2023 09:19:15(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,042
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
"pukos wear out due to the friction of the sliders and disappear,"
Blink

I have never heard this before.
Would that happen on any other layout than MiWuLa?
(1000s of hours of use)



In fact it happens after so many hours use of the Märklin tracks and slider.
We call it friction and you can see the result on the Märklin tracks on the puckos where there are oxid.
Of course does the slider make friction on the top of puckos on the tracks.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline David Dewar  
#166 Posted : 17 September 2023 12:46:14(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,359
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
"pukos wear out due to the friction of the sliders and disappear,"
Blink

I have never heard this before.
Would that happen on any other layout than MiWuLa?
(1000s of hours of use)



In fact it happens after so many hours use of the Märklin tracks and slider.
We call it friction and you can see the result on the Märklin tracks on the puckos where there are oxid.
Of course does the slider make friction on the top of puckos on the tracks.


After so many hours you say. My C track is still fine after years of use. You do need to clean the rails after some hours of use which helps with slider contact. Never heard of Pukos disappearing.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline marklinist5999  
#167 Posted : 17 September 2023 14:29:18(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,195
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes David. I would think friction is higher when new.
Offline H0  
#168 Posted : 17 September 2023 17:51:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,280
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone every had this happen?
I once saw a Märklin layout in a museum. There was no more traffic on the loops with slim turnouts because the Pukos had become so short that locos would always short-circuit the layout.
There still was traffic on the industrial area with regular turnouts (where rails near the frogs are insulated).

Not an everyday problem for private layouts, but It can happen on layouts other than MiWuLa, too.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Mark5  
#169 Posted : 17 September 2023 18:11:35(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Anyone seen the rather large K-track pukos where off/down?
How about pukos getting shiny if worn down, is there a way to blacken the metal again without losing conductivity? .... I remember reading somewhere about blackening agents in "gun metal" application but I do not recall the products.
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2), OceanSpiders 2.0
4 Pages«<234
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.093 seconds.