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Offline auntmartha  
#1 Posted : 24 May 2023 18:10:29(UTC)
auntmartha

Denmark   
Joined: 29/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Græsted
When and especially WHY did Märklin begin to caution the use of "kontakt-gleis" ( instead of "schalt-gleis") because the longer closed circuit might damage solenoids in turnouts and signals ?

After all, back before "schalt-gleis" was introduced around 1964/65 the "kontakt-gleis" was heavily used for triggering solenoids in turnouts / signals. And Märklin still uses "kontakt-gleis" to trigger level crossings.

Have the solenoids changed ?
Yours sincerely / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Bien cordialement
Mr. Christian Vinaa
http://www.vinaa.dk/trains
...... Meanwhile, aunt Martha, having taken a tramp in the woods,
is lying in a ditch at the edge of town .........................
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 25 May 2023 07:54:22(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
It´s still same function.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 25 May 2023 08:15:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It´s still same function.
Thank you very much for that qualified post.

Märklin added cut-off switches to the solenoids for C track and K track turnouts to prevent them from overloads. So obviously those solenoids are less robust than earlier models.
With digital operation, effective track voltage can be around 22 V - much higher than the 16 V used with analogue operation.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 25 May 2023 08:34:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: auntmartha Go to Quoted Post
When and especially WHY did Märklin begin to caution the use of "kontakt-gleis" ( instead of "schalt-gleis") because the longer closed circuit might damage solenoids in turnouts and signals ?
The 446 signal manual which was available for download under marklin.com (print code M 03 55 st, so maybe from 1955) contains a warning that, to prevent overheating of solenoids, contact tracks should not be installed where trains are likely to stop ("To avoid overheating the solenoids, it is recommended to avoid installing the contact track sections in places where the train is normally stopped or parked.", page 6).

When: Not sure if this is the earliest warning.
Why: To avoid overheating.

BTW: With a loco parked on the circuit track, this will also give you a permanent contact there, so overheating can also occur with circuit tracks (if overheating is a problem).

Apropos: Both trucks of my Märklin V 100 trigger my M track circuit tracks. I don't know other rolling stock that triggers those circuit tracks without slider, but in the case of my V 100 it disturbed my application as I expected one pulse per loco, but got two pulses from my V 100.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Online JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 25 May 2023 12:28:51(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,125
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: auntmartha Go to Quoted Post
When and especially WHY did Märklin begin to caution the use of "kontakt-gleis" ( instead of "schalt-gleis") because the longer closed circuit might damage solenoids in turnouts and signals ?

After all, back before "schalt-gleis" was introduced around 1964/65 the "kontakt-gleis" was heavily used for triggering solenoids in turnouts / signals. And Märklin still uses "kontakt-gleis" to trigger level crossings.

Have the solenoids changed ?

Hi
For quite some time (before WW2) Märklin was using large single solenoids to drive switches using a rachet mechanism
Here is a 1950 solenoid with ratchet for a signal
IMG_5003.JPG
.
Then, in 1951, M released full size single contact track and double solenoids motors on switches and signals.
Here is the first appearance of double solenoid motors here on a 4 solenoid DSS (Double Slip Switch)
3600DKWS R.jpg
This is to show that the solenoids are getting smaller so faster but less resistant to overheating

The tolerance for trains to stay on those contact tracks was medium and permanent damage started appearing after one minute (bending of the nylon solenoid core that made harder for the metal core to move.
Then around 1964 /1965 appeared the slider-operated contact tracks (Schaltgleis). Not only those were direction dependent but they would deliver only a short pulse reducing drastically the risk of burning solenoids.
Later in 1996, Märklin introduced its C Track with its compact solenoids with end switches. Very fast, compact but burning rapidly after a few seconds
Cheers
Jean
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 25 May 2023 22:30:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

Then around 1964 /1965 appeared the slider-operated contact tracks (Schaltgleis). Not only those were direction dependent but they would deliver only a short pulse reducing drastically the risk of burning solenoids.


"... deliver only a short pulse ..." still assumes a loco or piece of rolling stock with a pickup shoe doesn't halt with the shoe holding the rocker in actuated position. It is still possible for a solenoid to overheat with these contact tracks.

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